I messed up big time today . Took Charlie for his Total Recall training in the big open wide field where we went on Sunday, walked in a little way and stopped to attach the long training line, just as I went to clip it onto his collar he ran off :'( In a state of panic I blew my recall whistle and he did not respond, he came back in under two minutes (I timed him :), I blew my recall signal as he came running towards me and gave him a hand full of roast chicken and lots of praise and put him on the training line where he then continued to complete all his exercises but NO interest in the rabbit ball today Is it wishful thinking that he did process and eventually respond to the recall whistle? Makes me think his absconding history still out weighs any whistle training we do, nearly at the end of Total Recall and still this sort of thing can happen :'( Could he be the first dog to fail at Total Recall, that would be just my luck : Are we wasting our time? I am not going to get down in the dumps about this, I hope. Is there anything else that anyone can think of that we can do to help our boy overcome this behaviour????? Thanks Helen xx :'(
Re: Messed Up that really dont sound like you messed up,........in the past you have said he could go missing for over an hour ,.........WOW i think 2 mins is very good going,.....sounds like he ignored your first whistle then had a second thought you did the right thing to blow the whistle as he was coming towards you, you have no need what so ever to get down, to me you both have done amazing
Re: Messed Up Don't get down about it, these things happen. Just a couple of points, always have your whistle in your mouth, by the time you have fiddled around finding it and putting it in your mouth a fast long striding dog like Charlie will already be 50 yards away from you. In those sort of situations I don't mess around with the recall whistle I give it a huge blast on the stop whistle instantly, it will get through to the dog's brain much quicker than several pips for recall. I then go to the dog and praise or if I think it is safe and that the dog will obey I will give the recall command. Your stop whistle is your brakes, use it!! ;D But I have to stress again the quicker your reaction the better the chances of your dog actually stopping. It is no good trying this when he is half way across the field. ;D
Re: Messed Up Thank you, I don't think he is upto the stop whistle in an uncontrolled situation yet and I didn't want him to fail, but I guess I had nothing to lose, as yes, he was 50 yards away before I panicked and blew the recall whistle : I am just so cross with myself for being so stupid - aarrghh. Still on the upside he used to be gone for an hour and now he is down to under 2 minutes, every cloud : Helen x
Re: Messed Up Helen, have another look at this video clip of Gwen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jpPzYjl8DE&feature=youtu.be Before I put her on the ground I put the whistle in my mouth. This dog moves at the speed of light so I have to be prepared. Quite a few times she sugars off so quick stop whistle to which she responds instantly and drops to the ground and then recall whistle. I think you might have been amazed today had you blown the stop whistle hard the moment he moved. I reckon he would have sat.
Re: Messed Up Heidrun thank you, I need to up my confidence more as I have done all the work I just need to put it into practise : Gwen is a rocket dog and she does stop instantly, but she has learned all this from a pup, I have been trying to train an absconding dog with no previous training let alone whistle training from the age of 9 months, but not an excuse, I know just my own ignorance until I found this forum. I wonder if it might be worth letting him off the lead and the training line which is a real pain and putting all this training together in a live situation or is this a terrible idea? Maybe I would have been amazed, I would have loved that but we will never know - until the next time : Helen x
Re: Messed Up Do you still have access to the secure paddock, Helen? If so, if it were me I'd be tempted to give it a go there...
Re: Messed Up Heidrun I mean letting him off his training line and using the training that I have been doing in a real situation. Sorry I didn't word that very well. : Helen x Karen, I have taught him everything in the paddock including the stop whistle and it really doesn't seem to make a difference any more. Anyway my neighbour is selling up and I won't have use of it Just want Charlie to be a real dog Helen x
Re: Messed Up Have no time to write properly, Helen, but it doesn't sound too bad at all! I bought total recall before Charlie, and honestly followed it from day one (perhaps not exactly, as to be honest, I couldn't create all the scenarios - but as best I could manage as a novice and given the time I had, which wasn't much at first). And Charlie isn't perfect, I have hesitations, and I just go back and try to work out what to do next for the best. I honestly don't think that releasing Charlie from a training line (which IS different) and him having a little think about coming back is so bad. My first lab, a black working line boy, was a terrible absconder and we struggled with it all his life (and my mum was no slouch when it came to training dogs). You sound to be doing great.
Re: Messed Up Sorry again Heidrun, I just want Charlie to be off lead and putting all our training into real situations, as I don't think he is really learning on the end of a 10 meter line. That's a real dog Julie, I have worked through every exercise in total recall to the letter except calling away from dogs, never ever moving on until he is 100% solid and proofing 100% and he has done well. Absconding has to be the worst behaviour to try to rectify as it's so enjoyable. To Charlie's credit he is 100% better at coming back than he was a year ago. I have to admit that Grace and David have let him off lead and he has come back within 2 - 5 minutes without any recall so he wants to check in. Heidrun will be mad at me for admitting that Helen x
Re: Messed Up personally i don't think you are doing him any favours being on a training lead for a year.........i cant understand how he would ever learn , its like keeping a baby in a walker and never letting them out, how would they learn to walk ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i dont see it as recall being on the end of a training lead.........recall as i see it is calling him away from situations ..........all i can say is anyone of our dogs would be 100% perfect on the end of a line,TRUST HIM ..........just my opinion
Re: Messed Up Helen, where is he in those 2 - 5 minutes? Can you see him, do you know what he is doing, could you recall him if necessary? If i couldn't see my dogs or know what they are doing whilst they are free running for 5 minutes I would be doing my head in, but maybe that is just me. ???
Re: Messed Up [quote author=heidrun link=topic=2642.msg26863#msg26863 date=1379709157] If i couldn't see my dogs or know what they are doing whilst they are free running for 5 minutes I would be doing my head in, but maybe that is just me. ??? [/quote] Me too and I think that's because Riley used to leg it to see other dogs including through hedges which meant I couldn't get to him to get him back. If the people he was with just kept walking it has meant I've lost him for several minutes while pushing lizzie round and panicking, enlisting passing joggers to track him down stressful times! Now I only allow him 10-20 metres from me without calling him back or doing something together and we've worked hard to get to this point particularly his recall around other dogs but actually (and this is the point of my post ) I had to trust Riley at some point so I chose our locations carefully and went for it. Is his recall perfect, no I still don't think it is but it's a LOT better and he's manageable on walks. He rarely spends a whole walk offlead because of other dogs, roads or even that I don't want to have to watch him that closely for a few minutes but we have a great time together.
Re: Messed Up sorry if i am reading this wrong, .....i am sure helen you said he is on the training line all the time.....i am confused.......i remember you saying there is only you uses the whistle, no one else was allowed to touch it ........
Re: Messed Up I should also have said Helen, you've done amazing work with Charlie. One day you may have to take that leap of faith, I think all your hard work together will mean he will repay that faith I hope you find that day together soon. I also think that Charlie will probably always need watching and you may have to act quickly to keep him with you but your training will mean this actually works x
Re: Messed Up Helen, I feel for you, I really do!! I am reading all these posts with great interest because, as you know, I am a few steps behind you and in a similar situation, with a rescue dog whom I am trying to train as an older dog, with a history of running away when let off lead and ignoring all calls to come back. So...don't have a lot to offer except some moral support, perhaps. I know you have been dedicated to the Total Recall program and you are really trying to crack this with him. I would love to answer your question about whether or not he will EVER be completely reliable, because I wonder the same with Simba. My previous two dogs I trained from puppies, and I remember the "heart-in-throat" stages when I would finally take them for walks off-leash and I wondered if they would really come back when called. And they did. I think Helen does have a point in that at some point you do have to trust him. It's hard, I know - but I think you have some encouragements from your posts here: - he DID come back after a couple of minutes, not an hour!! - he HAS come back to your other family members after only a few minutes, to check on them - you have done all the lessons, he has PASSED with 100% - you are thinking that it's about time to go "live", as you said. So, I would say, find a big open field where you can see him?? No trees, or hedges too close?? Take your whistle, and your treats, and your COURAGE, but NOT the training lead....and GO FOR IT!! I think some of your hesitation is the thought of having done all that training and then see him fail....which feels like all the training is for naught. BUT I would be very clear in my own mind what you will expect from this experiment ie what exactly is a "fail" at this point? Are you really thinking he's going to take off and not be seen for an hour? Or is a fail that he runs away, you blow the "stop" and he doesn't, but does come back to you within a couple of minutes? Heidrun's right, you might have been very surprised if you had blown the "stop" in the first few seconds.... Cheering you on from here....I'm in the same boat as you so you know I have a great interest in your progress. Soon it will be me with all the trepidation as I get to this stage and you will have great wisdom to share from your experience, I am sure..... ;D
Re: Messed Up i agree lisa,......he is doing amazing, some times its all about trust,...2 mins wow ......that is brilliant, may be he is sick to death of being on that dreaded training line i wish you both all the luck in the world,......if i had trained jasper for 10 month on a training line how the hell would i know if he would come back to me when he was let loose ? honest i know i go on about kids, but keep a teenager on a tight leash when it does get off it will want to rebel .........i know they are not human, but i do think a lot of the training is the same
