Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

My new son aka 8 year old lab (name yet tbd) will be arriving home in some 4-6 weeks. Looking very much forward to the big day, the first weeks and the many years to come but my head is full of questions about how to ensure the best possible life for him and me together. One big theme is naturally house training and both related and unrelated to that, if I should crate him. I hope to get some perspectives on both themes.

House training - multiple locations

I have read about house training and have it fairly clear. However, most articles and advice seems to assume that you can take the puppy to the designated outdoor location, ie. that you are with or near the puppy all day (mostly backyard but I guess it could be any outdoor location that is not too far away from the house). In my situation, apart from the first 1-2 weeks, the puppy will be alone a couple of hours per day which is longer than his bladder can hold. Therefore, he will have to relief himself inside the house. My question is: Is it best to educate him to relief himself on a specific spot inside the house (e.g. on newspapers in a specific location of the house) when he is alone s well as outside when there are people home or is it best to educate him to relief himself outside and then just accept he relieves himself anywhere in his confined area when he cannot get outside? In case of the former, what is the approach to teach him 2 locations?

Anyone that does not crate?
It is quite some years ago since I was a dog owner and back then, crating did not really exist. Therefore, I do believe it is possible to train and ensure the well-being of a dog without crating but I have also read about successful crating. I do lean towards not crating but wanted to hear from people who have experience with not crating their dog, e.g. why did you not crate? do you regret you did not crate? worst and best experience with not crating?

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Hi , and welcome from me and my two dogs I haven't ever used a crate either, mainly because now I am retired but prior to that , we had our own business and one of us was usually home all day , so crating wasn't ever needed . I don't really like the concept of putting paper down or using puppy pads , it tends to give out the message that toileting indoors is acceptable and can be a hard habit to break . I think if I were having a puppy and had to leave it for a few hours, then maybe I would use a crate , at least until the puppy was old enough to have a decent bladder control and then wean it off the crate . The other advantage of crating is that when you aren't there to supervise , puppy can be kept safe from things like electrical wires etc . so , maybe its food for thought .

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Hi and welcome
Do you mean an 8 week old lab rather than an 8 year old?
House training - I was home for the first week with Harley so taught her to go outside, but overnight I put a puppy pad in her crate so of she was desperate she could use that. When I went back to work I only done 2 hours at a time then popped home for an hour to let her out, then back to work for 2 hours. Again, I put a puppy pad in her crate, but she never used it - she managed 2 hours really well. A few weeks later I went back to work normal hours (30 hrs per week) and would pop home for an hour every 3-4 hours max. She learned very quickly and we had very few accidents

As for the crate, Harley hated being in it at night (at 4 months old she came to sleep upstairs with us and still does), but was fine during the day. I left her with a kong which she demolished then slept til I came home (I have a webcam I watch her on). At 7 months old we decrated her during the day and she had the run of the kitchen - 2 months later she was given the living room. She still demolishes her treat then sleeps til I come home personally, if I had another pup, I wouldn't use the crate, but that is because of my own preferences

Look forward to hearing all about your pup when you get him

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Tricky one.

In the early weeks I had to take my pup into the garden roughly every 45 minutes during the day, and always after a sleep, play, and before and after eating. I never really taught her a particular spot to use, she picked her own and stuck with it!

I guess toilet training pads are one option, teach him to do his business on those and reward when he does. But the downside is that later you will have to start over and retrain him to go outside instead. You might find it helpful to confine him to a puppy-proofed room such as a kitchen, with a easy to clean hard floor when you are out, or perhaps use a puppy pen instead.

I'm a crate fan so can't advise first hand on the alternatives. But I think it helps expedite toilet training because they instinctively don't want to soil their own bed, although that won't really apply to your circumstances. For me, as I live alone (but work from home), using a crate was a no brainer because I still have to go out to run errands and shopping. We followed all the best practice advise regarding how to use it to make it a positive great place to be and my pup settled into it just fine.

But more than that, a crate ensures the safety of both your dog and your house when you must leave the dog unattended. Sure in years gone by crating was unheard of, but how many people back then came home to chewed skirting boards, walls, table legs, sofa's, shredded carpets etc because there is no-one there to see it happen and intervene. If you don't mind a bit of damage (assuming it's only your property and NOT the puppy being damaged by swallowing or choking on something) then go for it. But it's really worth thinking about confining the dog in a safe room or in a pen if you don't want to crate for when you are not there. I waited till around 10 months of age until I had the confidence and trust in my pup to let her have free roam of the house when I go out.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Rolo has been crated since we brought him home at 8 weeks. He cried and howled the first few nights but soon settled (top smelling of me and hot water bottle), he sleeps every night in his crate the first few weeks we toileted him every 2-3hours and then each night extend the length of time between. He now sleeps through all night. Dogs don't like to soil there beds, they like to be clean. If Rolo needed to be crated for long periods of time in the day he would never soil his bed, never longer than 3 hours tho.

I couldn't imagine not having a crate for Rolo. He is 5 months old now and the thought of decrating him makes me panic!

We need to see pics as soon as he arrives.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

I house trained my pup without a crate, then I crate trained him at 10 months.

There are a few things to consider, I think.

First, 8 week old puppies don't usually come crate trained. So relying on a crate from the get go means you adopt a "put them in it and let them cope" approach - I do wonder whether this leads to a lot of problems and noise in the crate. It took a week for me to crate train my dog slowly and carefully.

At first, I had a pen arrangement. A large puppy pen that was big enough so I could spend time in the area with the puppy and play with him and get him very used to being there. The first night, he had newspapers down at one end, and his bed at the other. We put him to bed at midnight (after a last pee), and got up at 5am to 2 small damp patches on the newspapers.

When I was with Charlie, I took him out every 20 minutes, which was the limit of his bladder control - and gave him treats for going in the garden. I always went with him, I never failed to reward every single pee and poo in the garden. If I had to go to the supermarket, or the airport etc. I put him in his pen. He often had a pee on his newspapers. He was perfectly house trained by 4 months and there seemed to be little, if any, disadvantage in having an "emergency toilet" inside. But I was super, super diligent about taking him out - always - when I was with him.

I think this is far, far, preferable than leaving a puppy in a crate for perhaps longer than they can hold pee and poo. Toileting in a crate is an awful thing - it means it has an effect on their instinct to keep their sleeping place clean, and that is much worse than them being able to leave their bed and have a pee on newspaper.

Later, my boy was injured, and only a crate was going to keep him safe while he recovered. I took a lot of time and trouble over crate training, and he is now as good as gold when he needs to be crated. Never a sound out of him, he just settles down right away.

So, I'd say a crate inside a pen arrangement is ideal. Crate when you are absolutely sure you can take puppy out before it needs to pee and poo. Pen and newspapers, with the crate inside the pen and the door open when there is any doubt about that.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

I haven't always crated my dogs, only in more recent years. My first lab wasn't crated as there was usually someone at home with her, but although house training wasn't a problem (as far as I remember!), chewing was.

Both of my current dogs have been crated since they arrived as puppies and always settle well in their crates when necessary. They seem to know the signals if they're going to be left at home: when the radio is turned on they queue for their Kong-with-a-bit-of-peanut-butter (or even better, stuffed with frozen treats), then head for their crates. I know they're safe when they're unsupervised and they are usually still looking sleepy when I return, not clamouring to be let out. It's also useful when we're away from home because using crates in other people's houses means they can't give in to the temptations of grandchildren's toys, etc, at night or if left alone during the day.

It seems to help with toilet training too, because they have only ever soiled their crates if they have been unwell. Obviously I make sure that they have been let out or exercised before leaving them.

It's definitely personal preference, but having had dogs with and without crates I know which I prefer.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=9077.msg129987#msg129987 date=1418415123]
Later, my boy was injured, and only a crate was going to keep him safe while he recovered. I took a lot of time and trouble over crate training, and he is now as good as gold when he needs to be crated. Never a sound out of him, he just settles down right away.
[/quote]

Having just read this from Julie, it's another plus for crating. It's easier to encourage crate rest for a couple of days after spaying if the puppy has been crate trained. One of mine cut her leg badly too and needed rest while it healed - the crate helped ensure that she was settled and safe at night and if we were out.

I've been lucky that mine have accepted their crates well. It's been a positive experience for them probably because, thinking about it, the dogs I have trained to sleep in their crates have always had another dog already crate trained in the same room.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

+1 for crate

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Tatze was crated and still is - she adores her crate.

Gypsy HATED her crate so she had a puppy pen until she was reliably house trained (15 weeks) since then she has been in her dog bed, no problems at all - no accidents, no chewing.

They are all different.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Rolo has been crated since we brought him home at 8 weeks. He cried and howled the first few nights but soon settled (top smelling of me and hot water bottle), he sleeps every night in his crate the first few weeks we toileted him every 2-3hours and then each night extend the length of time between. He now sleeps through all night. Dogs don't like to soil there beds, they like to be clean. If Rolo needed to be crated for long periods of time in the day he would never soil his bed, never longer than 3 hours tho.

I couldn't imagine not having a crate for Rolo. He is 5 months old now and the thought of decrating him makes me panic!

We need to see pics as soon as he arrives.

whoops have posted this twice. Sorry

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

I have crate trained my last 3 pups...including Bella. As others have said, it provides a safe place for them when they can't be supervised for short periods of time, and really helps with the house training side of things. Bella is the first one we've not crated at night...since the first night she came home she has been on the bed with us. : I will admit that there are pros and cons to this...one...puppy snuggles! but if we are ready for bed, and she isn't ...it can be a night mare. Also...there is no personal privacy :-[ I think crating overnight is really helpful with bladder control and learning to hold it longer...of course much of it comes with age...but the crate enforces a "hold it" response better than the "gotta pee...let's wake up mom with a lick" response we've got at the moment. Sigh... : She's getting better about her overnights...she'll be 14 weeks this weekend...and she usually only gets me up once a night.

I've been grumbling to hubby the past week because her latest trick is waking up and hopping off the bed...which doesn't necessarily wake ME up. A work in progress...

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

We only crate when we are out, I don't like leaving a tiny and a bigger dog alone together in case they accidentally hurt each other. But we do use puppy pads/news paper. In a flat when they can't go out (communal areas not sure who vaccinates and who doesn't) it's sometimes necessary to use them. I have on various occasions been glad I crated early as operations mean they need to be kept quietly, sometimes high reward treats are safer in a crate, and just occasionally if someone visits who can't cope with a hooligan I can just pop them into the crate until everyone is in and sat down.

I find toilet training really isn't too hard it just takes absolute vigilance and never take your eye off them, they get into a routine pretty quick, after sleeping, after playing and after food I find.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Thanks for all the advice.

Follow up question regarding house training:

So let us say that I make him used to go do his thing in a very small garden, that can be the short-term solution until all vacinations are done but not a long-term solution because the garden is small, how do I then when he is 4 months old detrain him to go in the small garden and rather pee etc when we are out walking in the park, trails etc?

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

That's difficult.

It would mean a LOT of taking him out to his wee places.

We have the opposite with Gypsy - she has to do all her poos/wees at home in a small spending area, not when out and about. That's easy to train as they soon get into the habit of holding it 'till they get home.

You would have to take him out first thing in the morning and at regular intervals during the day.

Once they are 12 months old it's easy - my Tatze only does about 3 wees a day! But Gypsy (6 months) is still needing a wee every two hours.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Not having a garden that's always been easy as soon as they are outside we just teach them grass is OK and paving isn't. Ours never touch the ground before vaccinations.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

We have a medium sized garden for living in town and Riley tries really hard not to poo in the garden, he got to this point based on his own preference. He pees all over the garden but he is an intact male and it would mean taking him out several more times in the day if we were to insist that he didn't do that.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Definitely a fan of crate training! This is our first time crate training for my boyfriend and I and both of us would say it definitely speeded up toilet training and we like the fact that when she's in it at night we know she's safe. We will decrate her at some point but she is very happy in the crate just now.

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

[quote author=Julie1962 link=topic=9077.msg130096#msg130096 date=1418477145]
Not having a garden that's always been easy as soon as they are outside we just teach them grass is OK and paving isn't. Ours never touch the ground before vaccinations.
[/quote]

The garden I have is more like a patio. There is no grass. I think I will do the following:

1. For the first 4-5 weeks until he has had his last shot (around 13-14 weeks) he will have to be housetrained to do his thing on the patio.
2. However, to ease the transition so he will not use the patio as permanent solution I plan to either put out some artificial grass or make a small temporary piece of grass/lawn for him
3. That unfortunately means that at 14 weeks I need to start teaching him to go outside in the parks, on the trails etc instead but I think that is managable

 

Re: Multiple locations for house training - and anyone not crating?

Gypsy's spending area is patio too.

I hose it down every day and it's just fine.

Artificial grass laid on patio doesn't work - it holds the urine and stinks in no time at all, no amount of hosing gets rid of the smell. But he won't have any trouble transitioning to grass - they prefer to wee on grass.

Here are Tatze and Gypsy in Gypsy's spending area. That small patch of artificial grass was very quickly consigned to the bin!

(Tatze never uses Gypsy's area but comes with us as Gypsy gets a treat, so Tatze isn't missing out!)