I can't believe I'm saying this but Iam seriously considering getting muzzles for my dogs. Just for veterinary purposes I should add. It's giving me a horrible feeling though like I've failed, thrown in the towel and given up on them. I haven't of course. I will continue to try and 'fix' them but it would take the pressure off. The vet visit is my biggest nightmare and worry with their nervous aggression. In general day to day it's not really much of an issue. People don't pile in to stroke them now they aren't pups and I have got them to a point were they are comfortable with a stranger being near enough for a normal conversation. I know adjusting their behaviour is a long term project. In fact if I'm being realistic its probably a life time project. I doubt their nervousness can ever be cured. The best I can hope for is I and they learn to manage it. They were probably born with a predisposition to nervousness. The unfortunate vet experience when they were so young tipped them over the edge. I'm looking at the muzzle as a management tool while I try and get my dogs to a point were they are comfortable being very close and touched by a vet (could be impossible :). My dogs have never tried to bite or snap at a vet or anybody and I don't want them to. I'm also looking at it that I will be more relaxed not having to worry about what they might do. The vet will be more relaxed. Hopefully this will rub off on the dogs. ??? Do you get the impression I'm trying to convince myself ? I'm not sure why it's just not a nice thing to be contemplating. :-\
Re: Muzzles I think if it makes everyone more relaxed, Jen, then I think it is going to be worth it. Quite a few of the larger dogs (mallies) and some of the rescues (labs and crossed), on an FB group I am on use muzzles for vet visits. I guess it depends a bit on how your dogs respond to having them put on. Might make anxieties worse??? Probably worth a trial though.
Re: Muzzles Worth a try. If it helps calm everyone when visiting the vets, it would be good. Would be worth trying some on and seeing the response you get x
Re: Muzzles I agree .... if putting muzzles on frees you from stress and relaxes you it's bound to rub off on the dogs. Muzzles have their uses and I'm a great believer in curing a problem by removing its possibility.
Re: Muzzles Thank you I'm hoping because they've never had a problem with having their halti put on that they might not be too bad. Touch wood, fingers crossed, wishful thinking. I did wonder though if it could make them worse. :-\
Re: Muzzles If you went through Muzzle Is A Good Thing stuff (the kikopup for harnesses is here, I bet it's pretty much the same: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k7edMjwEY1c), I wonder why it would make them worse? I don't think they would realise they couldn't bite, anyway, they probably don't really think about it, do they? Anyway, I think the main problem with muzzles is what humans think about them - logically, that's not sensible. If you think it would make everyone more relaxed, seems worth a try.
Re: Muzzles Muzzles will help you relax in certain situations and therefore hopefully the dogs should pick up on that too - if you're on edge then they will be too, but they have to be trained to wear them properly. I've seen far too many dogs that should be wearing muzzles but don't because their owners couldn't be bothered to put in the time to train them to wear one, they think they can just shove it on their face and they'll just wear it straight away. Even if your dogs are used to wearing a halti and therefore the sensation of something resting on their nose I would still take a lot of time to get them used to a muzzle, the last thing you want is a dog who panics everytime they see one - I had a rescue dog in my kennels who would try and bite you as soon as you showed him a muzzle because his previous owner had literally pinned him down and forced it on him. If you do decide to start muzzling them for certain situations make sure you choose the open basket style - Baskerville are the ones most commonly used. The fabric ones are awful - I've been bitten by a dog in a fabric muzzle because the front teeth can still stick out the end of it and nip you. Also they hold the mouth closed so dogs can easily hyperventilate as they cannot breathe properly or pant, add that to a dog who is anxious (therefore needing to pant) and you have a passed out dog from lack of oxygen! The basket style muzzles (if fitted properly) should allow the dog to open it's mouth enough to pant and drink, and will also allow you to feed treats to the dog whilst wearing it, making the training process easier too!
Re: Muzzles Sounds like a really sensible thing to me, Jen. It'll mean that if your dogs ever feel pushed to nip the vet nothing will happen, meaning no negative consequence for them or the vet. From that perspective it's something that will be a help to both your dogs and the vet.
Re: Muzzles i have seen dogs in the vets just muzzled for there visit,...a lady sat explaining to me one day, that her dog was just muzzled as he did not like going to the vets,....i think you would be doing the right thing, if it keeps every one happy
Re: Muzzles Sounds very sensible to me I have a friend who regularly has to muzzle her oldest girl as she no longer tolerates puppies so their other choice is to exclude her and they don't want to do that all the time. It totally takes the pressure off!
Re: Muzzles I agree with everyone else. If it makes everyone more relaxed that can only help the dogs, too. Don't feel like a failure, you are doing so well with them!!
Re: Muzzles It's another yes vote from me- anything is worth a try if it reduces stress for the owner and the pet! Good luck and keep us posted...
Re: Muzzles Thank you all very much. I'm thinking of the Baskerville muzzle ultra. It's made from soft rubber rather than hard plastic so should be more comfortable. It also comes in black so should be less obvious (silly human thing I know). I just need to work out how to measure for it. It says a size 5 for a lab but my two are quite small. Thank you for the kikopup link Julie. I think the sooner I get one the more practise we can have with it. I was thinking of smearing something tasty on the inside so they will be busy licking and not notice it. :
Re: Muzzles The Baskerville ultra ones are pretty good. They don't have designated holes in the strap for the buckle - you can buckle it at any length along the strap, if that makes sense, so it's really adjustable. You can also remove the strap that goes over the head if you want as I have found it totally useless!! The only thing that puts me off the ultra muzzles is the 'bars' are quite far apart so it's quite easy to accidentally put a finger inside and get bitten, if the dog decides to do so. My vet sells these in sky blue and I've also seen them in baby pink!
Re: Muzzles Sounds like a sensible idea. My last dog, Rolo, sometimes growled at a particular vet, so he wore a muzzle when we were seeing her. I didn't buy one - the vet just handed me one to pop on as we went into the consulting room. It was the sort that holds the mouth completely shut so not one you'd want on for long, but we only used it while the vet was handling him.
Re: Muzzles Thanks Lauren. I did think the bars seemed quite far apart. However as I'm only intending to use it for the vets surly he wouldn't be daft enough to stick his fingers in ? : I've looked up how to measure for one. Length of nose from about 1/2 inch below the eyes And then around the nose about 1/2 inch below eyes. Does that sound right do you know? I did think the vet would probably have them joy like the one you described. The reason I'm thinking of getting my own basket one though is so I can get them used to it and because they get so worked up at the vets they really need to pant. I don't think that type lets them pant. ??? I'm also thinking its not a bad idea to have muzzles anyway incase of emergencies. Any dog can bite if in pain.
Re: Muzzles Very sensible Jen, have you thought about the nylon mesh ones which might not feel so firm as the basket ones? x
Re: Muzzles Thanks Helen. No I didn't know about those I will have a look for them now. PS Just looked at the nylon mesh muzzles. They look a lot less obtrusive and get some good reviews. The product description says the dog can drink and pant normally . I need them to be able to pant. If they can open their mouths to pant though why can't they bite ?
Re: Muzzles Jen, I have seen them in Pets at Home and they are really inexpensive. I am guessing that all muzzles must allow the dog to pant or wouldn't it make a dog very anxious? but not sure about whether they could bite, maybe you could ask in Pets at Home. x
Re: Muzzles No joy, the fabric ones are designed specifically to hold the dogs mouth closed whereas a basket one simply puts a 'cage' around the mouth to prevent anything getting in the way of the teeth! I'm not sure about measurements Jen, I had a range of sizes in the kennels so just tried each one until I found one that fits!! Lol
