I took Felix out today to play with a friend's dog who is a pitbull bully. Everything was going great. They were playing, jumping, wagging their tails, only stopping occasionally to drink some water, rest, and mark their territory. But than suddenly, we noticed bully's behavior change as she started to ignore, avoid, and walk away from Felix and everyone. We chased after them, and my friend noticed the bully's left ear was bleeding profusely My boyfriend checked Felix's teeth, and sure enough, his mouth and teeth had blood stains :-[ I felt so bad! My friend didn't say much as she immediately pulled her dog aside and started to treat the ear. I went home feeling shameful, upset, and guilty! Accident or not, I feel it was my fault as I didn't train or socialize Felix good enough. Now I'm even a bit afraid to have Felix around other dogs :-\ Feeling like a horrible dog owner! :-[ I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to deal with these kinds of things.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog Do you think the bite happened in play? Dogs do bite at each other in play and if you didn't hear verbal signs of a fight or see their behaviour change (before the bite), then it may have simply been a play bite that was too rough. This doesn't mean it's okay, it just means Felix maybe needs to learn a bit more play manners and adjust his style. My puppy Maisie is 5 months and definitely still learning how to play appropriately. What I do with her is very closely supervise her play with other dogs so that I can correct her if she is getting too rough. For me, this means snapping and snatching at the other dog, and not stopping this behaviour - an occasional snap in the air is okay, or a chomp followed by switching behaviours to say a chase or jump or something, but I can sort of see when her energy level kicks up too much and she can't chill out on her own. The other dog may still be happy or engaging in the same type of play, but I want her to learn boundaries so we take a few minutes to play with a toy or do some tricks for a treat and then I let her try again… and at some point she's too worked up and we need to move locations or do something to get her to take a big play break. I use a cue word of "too much" when I remove her from the situation. I also remove her from play if she is trying to play with a dog who is not interested and she's not reading the signals appropriately. How old is your Felix? I notice Maisie is just getting better with time and practice. Today she had a little meet with a dog she normally is CRAZY to play with and they both were a bit better. When the teeth started coming out too roughly I simply said "okay, the play is starting to turn a bit wild, we'll be on our way" as the other dog was headed somewhere else and it was just a coincidental meet up. But before she would have had her teeth out from the start with this dog, so I'm very pleased with her progress. Anyways if he is quite a rough player maybe you want to work on doing some distracting fun stuff with you when he starts getting a little rough (and you can define what is appropriate "rough" for you, all dog owners seem to have different levels of comfort).
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog It's hard to tell exactly from what you described here, but it doesn't sound like your dog was being aggressive towards the other dog. Sometimes play between dogs can be quite rough, and sometimes injuries can happen unintentionally. How is he with other dogs generally? Have you noticed aggression - ears back, stiff legs, growling? Don't feel guilty! Give us some more info about Felix and his behaviour and let's see if we can give you some ideas! There's plenty of people here who have dealt with these kinds of things, so don't worry. And I see maisiemomma has given you some advice already....
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog It sounds like it could have just been a nick sustained during enthusiastic play. Ears do bleed a lot from the slightest cut... I know you must feel really awful but it doesn't sound like a case of aggression to me, just a grab that was a bit too enthusiastic. Try not to worry that Felix is a biter or is aggressive - I really don't think that's the right conclusion here. Maisiesmomma has good suggestions about calming down play and having little breaks. This is a good thing for any dog/pup to learn It will all be ok! Don't worry
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog Felix is 4 months old. When he plays with dogs, he usually skips the sniffing part and gets right into action such as jumping and lunging at the dogs. He doesn't bark, but he does let out growls, bares teeth, and I do see his eyes widen from time to time. The dogs he goes around usually play with him, but Felix is always the one who gets overly excited even when the other dogs stop and try to get space. That's when we usually interrupt and take Felix out of the situation to give the other dogs space. I'm not saying he's a biter or aggressive, but he is doing the same thing as he used to towards our other Pomeranian. Plays too rough, goes for the neck, gets on top constantly and not wanting to give the dogs space, etc. etc. We've been trying to socialize him since we got him, but there really isn't ever much improvement. Not to mention, we took him for a walk a couple of days ago and we ran into an older full grown Labrador. The first thing Felix did was bark and lunge at the other dog, causing the other Labrador to do the same thing. It was a pull and everything as the other owner and I had to restrain our dogs. I just want to be able to have Felix around other dogs without having to worry about him getting to crazy. A lot of people already don't want Felix to go around their dogs no more.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog Oh he is very little! He also must have very sharp teeth right now if his puppy canines are still in there (the little needle ones, I got a good slash or two off those by accident from my girl). So it's very easy to see how he might have nicked an ear. It sounds like he is very much a labrador in play style… when Maisie was younger her first move upon greeting another dog would be jumping up on their shoulders. I think as she is getting taller and learning a bit more manners, she has learned that this isn't the *first* move you make. I also think she can reach up to sniff more now that she's taller, so she doesn't have to jump - it makes for a nicer greeting. So that may come in a little time for Felix. How I describe it to other people is she is OVERLY friendly… she just wants to play and doesn't understand every dog doesn't want to be HER best friend. This sounds like what I'm dealing with with Maisie and it sounds like you are definitely working on the play style, so that's really all you can do. It's quite tough because they're FRIENDLY as heck but they aren't very nice players at this stage since they don't understand when the other dog wants a break. Honestly the most difficult times I have restraining Maisie is when the other dog is just as crazy into her. Other labradors often want to have a very excited meet and greet on a walk (except the old ones, they tend to want to be patted by me and ignore the young pup!). Two excited dogs meeting - well, of course it's going to be a bit of an issue. I can't offer advice as to how long it will take to help socialize him or help him learn proper play as I'm still working on it myself, but maybe someone else can speak to that if they had this type of dog when it was younger and it plays better now? If you're having trouble getting calm older dogs to make play dates with, could you perhaps find a course or contact a trainer to try to set up a one on one session with their dogs so they can help give you tips on how to teach Felix what is appropriate? I had a session with my trainer and another dog so I could see what was ok (parallel sniffing, shaking, playing with me, taking breaks, roughly even play) and what was not (biting at tummies, overly snappy/harsh mouth, wanting to play when the other dog is giving signals they don't want to play). That was helpful. We also took Maisie to a training course for puppies so she could practice focusing while in the same room as a bunch of other dogs.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog It sounds to me like a good socialisation class would benefit Felix - he is still very, very young and if you are having these worries now, taking him to a class where there is an experienced instructor who can give you guidance on what is ok, what is not, how best to interrupt your dog and so on would be just the thing. Getting into a situation with a 4 month old puppy, where you are keeping him away from other dogs is no good at all. He needs to be around appropriate older dogs to learn how to interact, and occasionally around puppies his own age to learn to play. Do look up what kind of classes and help might be available - it does depend on where you live, of course, but where I live there are lots of options for this kind of thing. You might have to try one or two different ones until you find the right class and the right trainer. Best of luck with it.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog Even dogs that know the rules have accidents sometimes. Willow currently has a little bit of hair missing on her cheek where Shadow nicked her. It was entirely unintentional and nothing to worry about. She squealed, play stopped and they reassessed things before ploughing back in again. If you're not sure what's normal play behaviour or are unsure how to socialise Felix, I think a class is a great idea, so you both learn what is acceptable, what's not, and how to handle it.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog Just this past weekend my 2 girls - 6 month old Bella and nearly 8 year old Anatolian were playing in the house while I was cleaning the bathroom.... All the sudden...hubby said "Heidi...come here...." I did the "what?" thing..."just get in here" : Ok....whatever...I came out... Blood EVERYWHERE Bella was prancing around, Hubby had the Anatolian by the collar and blood was pouring out her nose! She has a tender nose anyway - sun burned repeatedly, and often has a bit of a bloody spot....but this was clearly not just a seeping wound. Grabbed a rag, grabbed the dog...started wiping away to see WHAT was going on...Quickly it started slowing.... Turns out....the dogs had been playing, and apparently Bella bumped her and gave her a bloody nose. : No harm done, the bleeding stopped pretty quickly, and then the clean up of the mess followed. : : : Very little blood makes a HUGE mess...just sayin.... Rowdy dogs will be rowdy dogs...and accidents will happen.
Re: Naughty Felix bit? another dog He has been to obedience and puppy orientations. Plus the dogs that he usually plays with are pretty calm & well behaved themselves. I guess I'll just have to try to work something out. Thanks everyone for the advice though!
