Two mornings running I've had near disasters with Dexter and his obsession to cat hunt.....today's episode gave me the fright of my life....this was yesterday though: Our estate has 3 parks that are intertwined by pathways and alleys....they form the main portion of our walk....the first house on the 3rd park as we enter has 6 cats living there.the owner walks her cats in the park...we normally avoid that by careful time management .dexter can't contain himself walking past this place and the bushes outside..I practically have to hold a piece of chicken under his nose to get him past and if a cat breaks cover....it's not pretty!yesterday I walked him right up to the top end of the park before I let him off his lead,we did a few sit ,stays,find it's with his rabbit ball and some easy recalls....anyway I was recalling him and he just swerved past me and ran about 200 m down to the cat bushes..... I could see him but just about...then he disappeared so I just dropped everything and legged it to the house...their garden gate was open so he'd got in,he had 2 cats cornered when I got to him,one made a run and dexter shot after it round the front....cat ran onto the road....Dexter would have been straight out after it only he is too big to go under the garden railings and he didn't have the sense to back up and take a run...he'd have made it if he did!no recall whatsoever,I didn't even blow,I knew he wouldn't come back,it took me another 5 minutes to literally,catch him ....and he was a nuisance for the whole rest of his walk,agitated,unfocused,we looked a show! Today .....the second park is floodlit when I get out there in the dark at 6 am....we practice the same things and I also practice his recalls here as there is a lone rabbit that we don't often see but he can obviously smell ,makes things a bit more challenging....this park is linked to the 3 rd park by an alley and a road ( you know whats coming don't you)?....we'd done a few excercises and then I could see his antenna go up as I was walking away from him in a sit/stay......I whistled him and he ran right past me and kept on going up,the alley,I shouted Dexter Come but really quite angrily,( mistake I know,but it was fear of what he was about to do)he stopped,looked back and then shot off and right across the road.... .... Don't think I'm irresponsible,I've done a lot of risk assessment on our situation,I probably see 2 cars a week at this time of the morning so we would be very unlucky for an accident to happen but it's still possible so this can't continue. he is now so obsessive about hunting cats that he will point a carrier bag 20m away thinking that it's a cat....and start bristling. There is some much needed recall work to do .ive had no spare time today to read up on this so he's going to be on lead until I can .Im thinking I'm going to have to put him on a long line but I've never used one to know what to do correctly..........if I get the right technique do you think with my low level of experience I can overcome this hunting drive?it just seems so strong....it's really worrying me. We've got the sonic alarms on on the garden now so next doors cats haven't been sighted since and GREAT NEWS.....we've got the go ahead for the railings to stop him going over the wall......so plans are in place to limit his opportunities.i just feel a bit gutted that our off lead walks our curtailed due to cats ( oh and their waste products....I didn't mention that did I!) when I make so much effort to make sure he gets them...little divil!please don't think I hate cats,I really don't,I just hate how they are making dexter behave We were at the vets before,there were 2 cats in separate boxes ,one on the chair,one on the floor and a black lab that wouldn't sit.dexter sat by my leg the whole time while I paid and waited for his medicine looking at me as if he was an obedience champion.....? Need to get my head back in the books and get a hold on this ,wish me luck! X
Re: Near Catastrophe! Sounds like you have had a rough few days Angela I can't offer any advice but just wanted to say I know how you feel as Harley has been a nightmare on her walk today . She has run off twice after another dog, then a cat (once into the road, once through the bushes to another field) and recall has not worked at all. Keep at it, I'm sure they will get it eventually x
Re: Near Catastrophe! What a fright you must have had Angela - I think we all picture that unseen car hurtling down the road at just the wrong time, waiting for a screech of breaks :-\ :-\ Our recall as you know is pretty rubbish, and I think that is partly because we haven't had a long enough training lead, and also she KNOWS when it is on.......of course, not going through the proper proofing process as per Total Recall is our fault. I really can't offer any expertise, but if you get a training lead make sure it is really long - we went for light-weight nylon rope from the DIY shop which was relatively inexpensive and LOOKED long enough in the shop Really need to extend it. Trouble is, longer it is, more unmanageable :-\
Re: Near Catastrophe! Good grief that must have scared the living daylights out of you. I totally agree with Jac and If it helps, we now have Charlie on I think either a 30 or 50 mtr DIY light weight rope attached to a front fastening harness to protect him and David should he get to the end at any speed. Charlie does not seem know he's on it and he just mills around and not bolting to the end like he did on the 10 mtr which was a living nightmare and really delayed everything we were trying the train - never again. If you are in wide open spaces it is easier to use, that's what David tells me as he takes Charlie out on it I'm too chicken ;D You can then practice recalling Dexter from all sorts of things that crop up on your walk. I dont know if that helps Angela but it couldn't be any worse than todays scare. xxxx
Re: Near Catastrophe! Cant add to the advice re a long line but oh dear Angela, what a scare that must have been , a proper heart stopping moment for you . Long lines are great , I had one for Millie and still use it in unknown terratory xx
Re: Near Catastrophe! Hugely scary! Phew though, glad it was ok. I don't have any tips though - we're hopeless with long lines, we can't stop getting ourselves and other people wrapped up in them. And we don't meet many cats, and never have off lead. You'll need a cat to practise with I guess.... :-\ tricky...
Re: Near Catastrophe! Oh no, what a scare! I feel for you, especially since your off lead times are so difficult to come by. Sounds like the long lead might be necessary through the training process...but as you say, hard to do unless you have a cat to practice with. I guess it's the same as everything - start with what you know he will successfully recall from and work your way up. Last night I was taking Simba for a walk through a howling blizzard...seriously...and he spotted one of the deer that have been coming into town. Let's just say I was glad he was on a lead or I would have been searching around in the dark during a howling blizzard for my dog who would have legged it after the deer. As it was I had to pretty much drag him away...I let him watch it for a couple minutes but it's just too cold to stand around. Not that he seemed to care... :
Re: Near Catastrophe! I would think what you need to do Angela, if you want to that is, if you are going to use a long line is walk at a good distance away from where the cats hang out and recall Dexter a few times and with high value treats, it may take many weeks but then when he reliably recalls from them you can gradually reduce the distance and hopefully one day cats will be a thing of the past. I might be totally wrong, no surprises : there but someone experienced will come along and give you great advise. I hope this helps, I bet Rachael will have the answer xx
Re: Near Catastrophe! Oh Angela what a horrid few days, never used a long line so cant help there but would be interested to see how you get on, hopefully your next few walks will be uneventful for you..
Re: Near Catastrophe! That's really horrid and scary for you Angela. Look, does Dexter like to retrieve? Can you step up his retrieving training, to make you much more interesting than any cats??? Dexter is just doing what working labs with a prey drive do - and in order to circumvent that, you have to harness his energy and intelligence in some other way. I think I would walk him on a lead, so he has no opportunity to indulge himself with cat chasing. And I'd really step up his training, not just the obedience but retrieving, which is what he was bred to do. If you don't, I think he will hunt whenever he gets the opportunity. I'm sorry Angela, I know this sounds harsh, but it is what I really think. I nearly didnt write this, but then i thought we know each other quite well through the forum, and you know i am not trying to be difficult or cause you grief. You do a great job with Dexter, everyone knows how much you put into him and his care, and how much you love him. But the truth is, he was bred to work, and you need to harness those instincts somehow, or you are going to continue to have problems like this.
Re: Near Catastrophe! Crikeyrama! That is no fun whatsoever!! I think you'll have a challenge as this is similar to the problems people have with recall from dogs it can be hard to set up the training scenarios. There's either no cat or it's legging it right in front of him with no middle ground. You will have to try and stop him self rewarding which means lead or long line. I know a lot of people hate them but a retractable lead(tape not string) and harness saved my sanity when Riley was off after every dog he saw. You just have to be really careful around other people and dogs as you can get burns from them as they retract. It was better than trying to manhandle metres and metres of fixed line every walk though. I think if I was you I'd think about a couple of things....how to build a really good leave it response and also how spaniels are taught to sit to flush as you may find that's a technique you could employ?.... What you need isn't a rabbit pen it's a cat pen!!
Re: Near Catastrophe! What a massive fright. You poor thing. Nightmare. I agree with Karen. Walks on a lead. The only downside with a long lead is that if he sees a cat he has a lot of line to use to build up momentum. By the time he hits the end of the line he is going to be really moving and it will be hard to keep hold of the lead (cue grass skiing scene). My previous dog was an incredibly dedicated cat aficionado (in a bad way for cats) as well. When we saw a cat it was just a case of holding on. We used a fairly short (1.5m) lead made of abseiling rope which is thick and easy to hold and won't burn your hand if the rope runs through it. I would also do a lot of desensitising near the Cat House, starting at the distance at which Dex is aware of it but fairly steady. Rewards for walking past at that distance (even if it's 300m) and paying attention to you. Gradually close that distance as he can handle it. Just walk up and down past the Cat House and make it a focused training exercise. Treat the whole Cat House Locality as the stimulus you are desensitising Dexter to. Ultimately, you want him to walk normally through the Cat House Locality.
Re: Near Catastrophe! What you need is a cat with attitude! We met one of those who just stayed where he was and glared at Rourke which gave me the opportunity to keep walking past him and telling Rourke to leave. Previously at home, Rourke had leapt from the back of my car, in the dark and chased a cat, how he saw it I don't know, so I do understand how you must feel. Life must be difficult with so many cats around, perhaps think about them as if they were sheep and you have to stop Dexter chasing in case he gets shot (as he would here in England)
Re: Near Catastrophe! There you go Angela I was wrong as usual : :-[ The professionals have the best advise. xx
Re: Near Catastrophe! [quote author=Karen link=topic=3539.msg39237#msg39237 date=1386106023] Oh gosh I'm slow - just got it - CATastrophe!! [/quote] Ooo - me too! Very good. ;D ;D ;D
Re: Near Catastrophe! [quote author=charlie link=topic=3539.msg39238#msg39238 date=1386106534] There you go Angela I was wrong as usual : :-[ [/quote] I think your advice is exactly the same in principle as Karen's and mine, Helen - to do a lot of practice in getting him to ignore cats Doing recalls away from the cat area at a distance would also be very helpful, I would say. I'd just do it far enough away at first so that he's not likely to take off and hit the end of the long line at 200kph. You have done more work in this area than most of us put together, Helen. Your advice carries a lot of weight. And I only just got the CATastrophe thing too : ;D
Re: Near Catastrophe! You are all so dim! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!,next time I'll write in capitals.... Thankyou,thankyou all advice very much appreciated....... Helen you live with the King of Absconders so I will always appreciate your insight,thank you Karen you aren't being harsh,you are telling me exactly what I know,I'm just going to have to cop on quick about how to handle this.He's a lot more keen to retreive than he used to be( maybe I have the cats to thank for that?).with the rabbit skin ball he'll deliver to hand 50/50 although I only do 3 or 4....chris takes a big roll,of masking tape( don't think I've mentioned that?) and he loves that ..... This has been building for some time .......October and November have just been a right off for training with his recovery from his ops and the 6 week trail of visitors...... I've done nothing new with him in that time just practicing what we can do in the park already,he obviously needs more now so I've got to step up.I've got the Gundog grade one book to help me so I'll start there...and I've been bookmarking all the retreive articles through Julie's threads when she was trying to get Started with Charlie.I'll practice the desensitizing process you suggest Rachael and when I can get out with Chris we can recall him back and forth with the Cat House in the vicinity if we have got high value treats.Hes still on prison food for another day with slow reintroduction of his kibble ( I've been advised) so he's on his lead until the weekend...... I'm reading Karen Pryors Getting Started clicker Training For Dogs at the mo.....(I know ??? should have read this 9 months ago )his walk last night and this morning were on lead and I got the clicker out to fine tune his heel.....you know I've never been fussy about his position ,but I got a massive improvement ,he was banging into my leg!this doesn't help the cat issue I know but it's given me a bit of confidence again that I can teach him things as I'd totally lost my bottle yesterday ......I love him to bits but days like yesterday make me ponder hard on it being the right decision to get him.....he is a very good boy generally but I was getting in a tizz yesterday questioning our decision to get him and whether im( definately not we when it comes to training) am up to his requirements......I've got a grip now as it's a case of having to be,because he is going nowhere...and definately not over that road again! ;D Thankyou everyone else...I'll let you know how we do although t he next couple of days will be a bit boring for him til we get his tum right x
Re: Near Catastrophe! I think that sounds like a good advice and a good plan. Charlie is often pretty nutty (don't want to stereotype Choc labs* but Charlie often does a good impression of the stereotype!) and the number of times I've relied on a ball or dummy to get and keep his attention is unbelievable. Just taking a ball out of my pocket gets his instant attention. It's a winner. Good luck with it, keep us posted. * Last night at the vets we were discussing Charlie's diet and the need to keep him slim - the subject always comes up when a vet sees his podginess. And the podge has increased a little this last week with no exercise and a huge amount of clicker training. The vet suggested Charlie might be trained with carrot batons. I said "you've met him, do you honestly think I'd get his attention with carrot?". The vet said "no, ok, it's true, every Chocolate Labrador I've ever met has been a bit bonkers".
Re: Near Catastrophe! Aw, so unfair of your vet. Carrot? You have go to be joking. I've met Border Collies that will work for carrot but not Labradors. Always the exception out there though, I guess Sounds like a plan you've got there, Angela We all have our heart-in-mouth crises. I was re-living my Scotch Finger incident as I read of Dexter's exploits.
