I have a beautiful 7-mo-old black Lab named Birdie. I posted several times under "Puppy Problems - Will things ever improve" when I first got her, and I'm so glad that most of the problems I had with her have improved through consistent training and positive reinforcement. She is no longer an uncontrollable crocopup who relentlessly torments the cats. And thank goodness I never had housetraining problems or problems with her taking objects from tables, chewing furniture, or anything else that would fall under the bad house manners category. She loves car rides, people, other dogs, and has plenty of stimulation and activities to keep her a well-adjusted, happy puppy who is growing up to be a wonderful dog and loving member of our family. I do, however, have a problem that began as a small pup and still persists, and despite her knowing "leave it" and "drop it" I am still unable to control it: She eats leaves, sticks, and stones every single time we go outdoors! It is impossible to pick up each and every foreign object in our yard. Most of the time I am able to distract her when she is off leash during play and exercise time, but ultimately she heads off and finds something she shouldn't have. I have tried cayenne pepper, Tabasco, soap, bitter apple, and nothing works. When we stroll through the yard for her bathroom breaks I'm constantly saying "leave it" and "drop it" which she conveniently ignores unless I have a treat to swap, but I can't keep doing this swap or she'll be eating 30+ treats each time she goes out. I even quickly change directions when I see her going for something, but at each turn there is another leaf to grab. I'm totally lost once again. I don't think this is something she will grow out of. It seems more like a compulsive behavior that is going to last forever unless I can succeed in correcting it now. I have read endless articles on PICA and all of the possible underlying causes. I can safely eliminate improper nutrition or health issues as a cause. Fencing off a smaller area won't work because leaves will fall there, too. And a covered, fenced, concrete run isn't something that would be much fun for either of us. The last resort seems to be either a basket muzzle or an Outfox mask, but I would rather *correct* the problem than *prevent* it with something like a muzzle if at all possible. I keep telling myself this behavior HAS to be something that can be eventually trained to correct. Has anyone here had this problem who can give me an effective way to resolve it? I'm desperate. I really need to hear from someone who has actually experienced this problem. I would be ever so grateful! I love my sweet Birdie. Re-homing her is not an option.
I can't be any help but I can sympathise, Ripple is the same on his walks. In the morning I take him to the local rec and come home with pockets full of sweet wrappers, bottle tops, and various other debris; the worst thing is cigarette ends as they seem to be his favourite. I instigated swap for things but, like you said, it would involve a constant stream of treats. Of course it also makes off lead work a nightmare as I have to do a complete sweep of the area before I can start. Now we're in Autumn all the leaves and twigs are a constant feast for Ripple and his poo is noticeably 'twiggy' at the moment. I don't remember having this problem with my other two labs, I'm just hoping that Ripple will grow out of it.
I'm not an expert but it sounds to me as if you "leave it" and "drop it" haven't been proofed enough to deal with situations outside. Although not bothered by picking up all sorts of rubbish while on walks, Juno used to pick up dog poo, cow loo, horse polo until I was close to pulling my hair out trying to stop her. Ultimately the only thing that worked was a lot of work on our "leave" indoors, in the garden and out on walks. It wasn't a quick fix overnight and required a high level of vigilance on walls but Juno doesn't pick up any loo on our walks now, she approaches it and may sniff but then moves on usually looking at me as if to say ' look at me, wasn't I a good girl'. I also treated every time she responded to "leave', I break treats down quite small so overall only had her normal quantity of treats. Good luck
I'm sorry I don't have any words of wisdom as Eric is a nightmare! On todays walk he surpassed himself by grabbing a very dead birds carcass and running the opposite direction. Nothing would get him close enough to do any sort of swap. I would have happily traded for sheep poo at that point haha! I will be watching this thread
MaccieD, that's the thing... her "leave it" and "drop it" have been proofed everywhere -- indoors, outdoors, in stores, at other people's homes. It's been working ever since her puppy class training lessons, and we practice it every single day. I can even set a treat on the floor in the house or the ground outdoors, say "leave it", and she won't move even an inch toward it. She'll obey leave it if it's anything but leaves, sticks, and stones. With other things, like a slipper indoors or a washrag and pail outdoors, she'll immediately obey and I don't even need to offer her a treat. Just a "good girl" is enough. But let her get near a twig and if I can't make that immediate swap for a treat it's over. Once in a while she'll actually obey and I reward her lavishly for it, but in the very next breath she's back to grazing for bits of stuff. I'm pulling my hair out. At least it's some consolation that I'm not alone. I guess I'll just need to keep using treats every single time and eventually hope that fading them works someday. Wow do I ever hope she grows out of this.
If I didn't laugh I'd cry. I'm currently on poo watch. we've just got over a small bout of runny poo's ... probably from something else he shouldn't have had. He is flipping gorgeous though
CatThief If her "leave" is great with everything else why not use some leaves and twigs indoors for training and when she is fine with them indoors try outside. Our garden is overflowing with laves and Juno loves charging through them for her ball. She does pick the odd one up to carry around, I think because of the noise they make, but drops it when asked. You might want to increase the value of the treats to help overcome the obsession with leaves etc. Our pups do like to put us to the test .
How bad is this habit? If you left her to her own devices, just how many leaves, sticks and stones do you think she would she eat? Does she actually eat them, or just pick them up? When you say she "heads off and gets something she shouldn't have" is that just picking up a stick, or eating loads of sticks before you can distract her?
Dexter will eat or drink anything he can get hold of. His leave it or drop it, is coming good and I always exchange for a treat at the moment but I have to be quick to get him away from offending object otherwise he grabs it after he's eaten the treat. Walking out in public is a nightmare at times, so much rubbish, a bottle top here, sweet wrappers there and chewing gum everywhere. Some walks are a constant, heel, leave it, heel, drop it, heel, good boy, little s..., makes my head spin! I was only saying to my husband tonight about the amount of rubbish around is awful. At our local park some dog owners don't even pick up their own dog poo and others do then throw the bag in the longer bits of grass, exasperating, there are loads of bins provided, makes my blood boil. If I see them, I'll offer a bag and tell them where the bins are if they can't manage to see the big green things up or around the hill. Oh dear, I've got on my soapbox In my garden my biggest problem is Dexter sniffing and rooting out baby slugs from the grass Fencing coming tomorrow to cordon it off for winter otherwise it will just be a mud bath, that will put pay to the slug rooting for a while at least.
MaccieD, That's a good idea! I'll bring a few leaves and twigs indoors for training. Ugh, put us to the test is right. JulieT, Left on her own she would chew up and swallow as much as possible. I tried letting her have leaves hoping she would stop on her own, since they're the least chance of causing a gastrointestinal blockage, but she just won't quit. When she "heads off" it's to find all of the stuff I won't let her have from the flower beds and under the bushes. If it's a stick she'll immediately start chomping it to bits so she can eat the pieces. If it's a stone she'll chomp on that, too, in an attempt to break it up. If it's a tiny stone, she'll swallow it before I even have a chance to do the "drop it" trade for a treat, and if I have no treat there is no drop. I am frustrated beyond belief. I can keep her out of those places when she is on a leash, but when she's loose during exercise and playtime it becomes quite a problem. Newbie Lab Owner, Haha I didn't even mention how Birdie eats slugs and beetles. Next to the other stuff they're the least of my problems.
In that case, I'd seek some professional advice. If it really seems like compulsive pica, I would call in a professional before she is any older. Perhaps try to ask your vet to see whether they can recommend someone, as I think there is a really variable quality of 'behaviourists' - but good ones can be worth their weight. Best of luck with it.
JulieT, I just wanted to try everything possible on my own first. Since she doesn't do this with every object she finds, I was hoping it was something I could manage on my own. That, and hoping she would grow out of it.
If you don't think it's compulsive.....then all puppies pick up inedible stuff and occasionally eat it (really not all that often though) and she will grow out of this. My dog was a horror for it, really. But it passed. But true pica is a compulsive disorder - if you really think it is pica, call in a pro. Really, I wouldn't mess about with it.
I would call it compulsive where leaves, sticks, and stones are concerned. She leaves everything else alone (trash, wrappers, poo, garbage). I guess in some ways I can count my blessings. I am definitely considering seeking a professional. I am going to try using garden border fencing around the problem spots (flower beds and, bushes) so I'll just have the open yard to contend with. I found a pretty good deal at Amazon, and the reviews are favorable. If the border fencing isn't strong enough to prevent her from pushing through it, I can add wooden stakes at each section to make it stronger. Meanwhile training will continue.
Mine was like this but I used "leave it" and distraction. My vet wanted to use a muzzle but I didn't. I changed my dogs obssesion too squeeky balls. He loves them any way but he could only ever have them when we were out or in danger areas. He got to stage where he always wanted one. He had colitis so he was really ill at one point but i kept on and now he's ok. He will leave most things. The biggest thing that helped was that I realised he was competing for me for these objects and want to get them before me. I made them less appealing to him but not wanting them. They special things became less desirable and my squeeky balls(sorry not a rude as it sounds) became the centre of the universe. He is a lab so he's always going to want to be a dustbin, but you can modify and get rid of some of the horrid stuff
Hi there.....the swallowing stones is a worry.....my dog was a nightmare for it at 5 months when we got him.We had to remove all the ornamental pebbles out of the garden ,if he wasn't being occupied or asleep he would sit by the back door all night wanting to go out to dig up stones.....I always swapped for a treat and practiced and practiced drop/leave it.I was lucky as he never ( to my knowledge) swallowed one ,he seemed to just enjoy the clacking sensation on his teeth so I got in the habit of giving him ice cubes....All these things combined ...together with him getting older solved the problem. That said there were ( and still are) times he will pick up a stone when we are walking on lead and will hold it still in his mouth.......the expression on his face gives him away,I know straight away!little monkey! Dexter also ate cat poo....I hated it.....horrible habit.At its worst I used to put him back on his lead when we were walking through 'high risk ' areas ......when drop and leave where strong in the house and garden I had to go and practice in the cat bushes....that was a low point in my dog ownership role I can tell you! But but he learnt quite quickly so I didn't have to hang out in there too long with my big value sardines and roast chicken.... Their capacity to consume horrible things is voracious ,I haven't got enough experience to know when you pass over from normal horrible habits to compulsion .....as their normal horrible habits can seem quite compulsive !! Best wishes Angela
I've just been thinking about this as I drove home from the shop,funnily enough passing the house with the 5 cats......I'm remembering wrong ,the downside of not keeping a training log....I dealt with Dexter's unsavory habit using his recall.....I had him on a long line in the park and could stop him if he headed over there......that technique won't help a dog that's picking up absolutely everything though....
Thank you everyone for your stories and encouragement. After some long thought I really don't think it's a serious compulsive disorder, just an extremely annoying habit. She isn't fixated on this stuff to the point where she can't be distracted, and she is selective about the things she picks up. I think she just enjoys the taste of certain leaves (she only wants the ones from a few specific trees) and the crunch of the twigs and stones. I began MaccieD's suggestion of "leave it" indoors quite accidentally -- a leaf (of her liking) was stuck to the sole of my shoe and ended up on the doormat. As Birdie went for it I told her to leave it and she did! I left it there for a few minutes. She went back to it for just a moment, sniffed it, and walked away. I have to keep reminding myself she is still a pup, and she is a Lab, and this is the sort of stuff Lab pups do. But at the same time I can't allow this to continue into adulthood, for the sake of her safety and my sanity. Work will continue on "leave it", I'll introduce more distractions, and I'll soon be fencing off the problem spots she heads off to when she's off leash. Hopefully one day in the near future I'll be able to post here again with news that the problem is solved, or at least under much better control. Meanwhile thank you once again everyone. I'm not pulling my hair out quite so much today.
