new 8 week old nutter is home. Tiny working bred Lab, currently weighing 2.65kg! extremely naughty and definitely keeping HD on her toes, poor lamb. i have a couple of questions though. i have the gundog club puppy book, which i am reading and following carefully. [list type=decimal] [li]there are some rules in there that i have even got the children to respect. the first of these is to never pull anything out of pup's mouth and to always praise her for doing so. but, i am not sure of where the line is between holding / carrying an object and lying down and ripping it to shreds. i really don't mind the holding but i have a bit of a problem with the biting / chewing it! what's the rules here? EDITED to add, this is anything she picks up, not just her toys.[/li] [li]also with the retrieve, she is keen to run out and pick it up but isn't great at bringing it back. if i run backwards she drops the ball and chases me. I'm figuring she's too little and i should lay off for a few weeks. is that right or am i just going to see the same issue then too?[/li] [li]third thing is that HD has a tendency whenever seeing pup with a toy in her mouth to chase after her and pull it out of her mouth. i am assuming that this is part of the game that they both try to carry the same stick and then there's a bit of tug going on. is this acceptable between dogs? i hope so as i am not sure i've got much chance of stopping them.[/li] [/list] Any guidance gratefully received. Cheers Sarah
Re: New pup Great news about your new pup! Congratulations!! I have never trained a working gundog so I will not have what would amount to a blind stab at answering your questions. Just wanted to say how lovely it is that you have a new pup
Re: New pup Hi Sarah,I haven't got much experience so I can't help at all on 2 and 3.....we have probably ruined Dexters mouth forever by tugging things away from him until we got educated..... He is only ever going to be a pet though but even so,we should have known better .... I understand your point if you can't get something away from him before the chewing starts... We use distractions and the clicker.....he was completely besotted by a Safestix toy that he crunched his way through so we removed it for safety.It was always within our reach though so if he got something we didn't want him to have we used to let him see us lift it down and he usually drops whatever he has we don't want him to have ......sadly the Safestix got crunched away so next up was the clicker,I just have a pot with a clicker and treats on the side in the kitchen ,if he gets anything I don't want him to have....I call him and click and treat when he drops it....I do say drop.....as well but It's not the command that's having an effect it's definately the treat......bribe :-[ but it does work....
Re: New pup i shouldn't be bribing her to drop things i don't think. that's spitting stuff out which is not what i should be encouraging but similarly i shouldn't be encouraging her to chew things she's carrying.
Re: New pup Hi - congratulations on the new pup - pictures as soon as possible! It's been weeks since we've had a pic of a really young one just arrived... My boy (Charlie, 4.5 months) is just a pet and we've no real experience of the gun dog training (just starting to read up on it). With fetch, he has to "drop" when returning his ball for another throw - so this eventually was the start of him knowing what "drop" means and he will now usually "drop" things that we don't want him to have. But it's taken a couple of months to get to that stage. Before he really understood "drop", we would "swap" contraband for things he was allowed to chew by pretending that whatever we had and wanted to give him was hugely interesting and valuable (waving it around and playing with it etc.). Clicker training "leave it" was also hugely valuable. I think it was at least 10 days after we got him before he was chasing a small toy and returning it and I had to sort of coach him through the return with treats. After that we moved on in stages to get him to return larger balls etc. - it took a little while.
Re: New pup pictures then! http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/honeydog1/slideshow/ getting lots of lovely eye contact. she's very food driven and will sell her soul for a piece of ham. she's sat like a sack of potatoes in one of those shots. bad photograph, i apologise.
Re: New pup What a tiny cutie pie , adorable I used bribery with treats for Sam when he was little , would say the word Leave as he let go to take the treat . Once he got into the hang of it , I made it a roulette , sometimes a treat but sometimes not but he seemed to think it worth the chance
Re: New pup What a little love! I am sure Pippa and/or Heidrun will be able to advise you more regarding the early training. but for what it is worth, my instincts would be - just enjoy her for now, and make the ball game FUN. Never mind about the bringing back, the big thing is that she chases the ball. And don't obsess too much about the pulling and tugging with the other dog - she is a tiny puppy, of course she's going to tug at things, it's what they do!! And if she is ripping up her toys - just be grateful it's her toys and not your shoes... Yet. How lovely you have a kind older dog to 'take her under her wing', as it were!
Re: New pup sorry karen i didn't make it clear, it's not her toys as much as shoes etc - the usual puppy stuff. she isn't shredding her toys but holes taken out of children's brand new crocs isn't what they're hoping for. we're confining her in the kitchen & garden as we have a large kitchen with seats etc so its no real hardship. it's much easier to keep the vast majority of things away from her that she shouldn't have when she doesn't have the run of the house (and toilet training issues are rare). my problem is that i've taken on a dog with numerous FTCHs in her pedigree including some fantastic dogs so i just don't want to break her. she's bright, independent and naughty and i feel a responsibility and don't want to feel that i'm not up to the challenge i'e set myself. she already adores HD who has more patience with her than she deserves. she likes to pull her face, bite her tail etc. etc. and never tells her off. If i take the little one away, hd wants her back! HD is definitely struggling with jealousy at times though. feeding a puppy 4 x a day isn't hard on a dog that is fed 2 x per day! I've had to give in and split her food into 4 lumps! sarah
Re: New pup I personally don't allow my dogs to play tug with one another. I have no firm evidence to suggest that it is harmful. I simply don't like the idea that a puppy is having anything pulled from its mouth, not even by another dog. This approach avoids problems, and is the key I feel to an easier time with a puppy Pippa
Re: New pup I agree with Pippa. If you can train the kids not to leave anything lying around that the puppy could get hold of then your life will be a lot easier. I also don't allow tug of war games between my dogs and especially an older dog and a young puppy. So if HD can't resist taking toys off the puppy then I wouldn't leave any toys lying around. With regards to the puppy retrieves, just play this game in a restricted area where the puppy can't run off with her prize. Most puppies want to take the retrieve back to their bed so if you can sit in the doorway to the room where her bed is it might encourage her to come right in your lap. Only throw one or two retrieves a day for her. They get bored so easily at this young age and that would be the last thing you want.
Re: New pup just thought i'd update. things going really well with Eevee. She's now retrieving with me sat on the floor making a massive fuss of her when she comes back and not taking it off her too early. loves to come back and we're keeping grunty pig special just for this reason. not sure whether using a toy like this is helping or long term hindering but interested to hear your thoughts. i think doing it outside was part of the problem and now we're using the hall so that is a bit of a corridor for her. she's wingeing in the car something dreadful. we're going to start clicking and treating with this one for periods of quiet. I was warned not to get dogs too close together in age as their behaviour regresses to baby again and you won't be able to easily pull them out of it. i've atually found the opposite - so far that is. she's more desperate to please because she now has competition for my affection. very keen to be with me and heeling is doing fabulously of lead and on. recall is much improved and recall off other dogs has definitely improved. strange really but dh reckons she was lonely. bit too much human emotion on dogs there but perhaps she's just not as excited by them any more. really enjoying having her and this is a great time to do so when the children are off school for a long time. personally i wish it was cooler - would be happier to get out more because i don't deal with the heat as well as i might do. Trying to decide whether to take her to puppy training. No real reason to from the training point of view and i'm not sure of it from a socialisation point of view as they're meeting older dogs when out and not puppies who accept other puppies not obeying any rules. to a certain extent i do wonder whether puppy socialisation classes has exacerbated HD's love of other dogs. http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/honeydog1/slideshow/ interesting conversation about weight with the vet who reckoned she'd end up at about 22kg. hd's 24kg but at 9.5 weeks old Eevee hadn't made it to 3 kg. i reckon she'll end up circa 19kg. the vet reckoned that was an impossibility for a labrador. the reason it's important is I'm feeding her 2% of 19kg in raw food. I'm feeding her minces at the moment but with the odd long chew meaty bone. I think that's all my questions! thanks for reading.
Re: New pup She's lovely... Re her size - at our Gundog training class, the very best retriever of all is a TINY black working lab called Nellie. She weighs 20 kg at the most, and knocks all the big dogs into a cocked hat - keener, faster, smarter. So there you go - proof that size really doesn't matter!!! My little Pops only weighs around 25 kg too.
Re: New pup thanks Karen. little one is a better retriever than her already but then i know what i'm supposed to be doing more. hd got a lot of things pulled out of her mouth. good heavens i'm hot.
Re: New pup - updated with progress Hi Things here have moved on a bit since my first post. [list type=decimal] [li]Pup is now sitting beautifully for hand signal and getting there with verbal on its own. i think verbal's harder.[/li] [li]getting used to the lead is going well. she tends to dance around on the left and to the front of me. i treat each few steps.[/li] [li]retaining all the lovely eye contact[/li] [li]retrieving is going really well. at first i was doing it wrong i think. i've moved indoors into the hall and sit down and make my own retrieving lane using my legs. this funnels her in beautifully and she's skipping off across the hall for it and coming back wagging her tail massively. only doing a couple of these 3 or 4 times a week with a rabbit skin ball which she loves. it's kept out of reach for the rest of the time. She's disappointed when it gets put away so that's a good sign hopefully that i'll be able to get her enthusiasm going. She's more enthusiastic for food though![/li] [li]waiting for her food is really coming on. don't like her taking her food without permission, we can now get the bowl on the floor and say "take it" before she'll move.[/li] [li]she's nipping like a good 'un. she gets told off with a progressive list of tellings off for this. don't like it and hoping it'll not go on forever.[/li] [li]recall is fantastic as the opportunity to get a bit of salmon biscuit is worth running like a rocket for.[/li][/list] Night-times are ok now thankfully. Goes in her crate about midnight and is up at 6am. I need to be getting her out and about a bit more but the really hot weather's been limiting me a bit as i'm a bit pathetic about it. I will get her into work and up and down the high street - the kids can join in and help. just wanted to update this with how we're doing. thanks sarah edited to remove stray html tags and typos.
Re: New pup - updated with progress Sounds like she's going really, really well You must be very happy with how she's coming along. Verbal signals are definitely harder than visual. Dogs are very tuned in to movement and posture. The nipping will end (eventually) - we promise!!
Re: New pup - updated with progress thanks Rachael yes i'm very pleased with her. here's hoping i can continue to keep up with her. ;D i might use this as a bit of a diary as to how things are going with her if that's OK.
