Hi, my names's Graham and I'm not only new to the site but also to dog ownership. I have a 6mth black lab called Widgeon (like the duck) who, one day, I hope to have as my shooting companion. I have had him from 2mths and gone though all the usual stuff I read on the site like ripping up beds and door mats and teasing me with things he has found that he 'shouldn't have' When he first started going out he when off the lead most days and always came back (as I see is the advice on here) but at around 4mths old there was one incident when he chased a pheasant, he didn't return when whistled and it was getting dark and I had lost sight of him, I called his name and ran off, lucky his night vision is better than mine and he followed. Not wanting to put him straight back on the lead, and punishing the recall, I sat him. Before I could get the lead on he was off again, although did return not long after. I asked a dog trainer for advice as to what the correct way to handle this situation should be. He said I shouldn't let him run free until he can consistently walk to heal so A. He walks with me and B. I'm not rewarding him with freedom after pulling on the lead. So he hasn't been 'free' for maybe 6-7weeks. Should I revisit the 'puppy recall' for a week and then let him off And although he walks better how long should he be 'at heal' before letting him go to avoid the 'reward' issue Thanks
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Hello and welcome to the forum from me and two year old black lab Sam Other may disagree with me but to me, the recall was the single most important command to work on when Sam was a puppy . Like you , I wanted him off lead asap and like you, we had our blips along the way, dont we all : What I did after a blip was to work on the recall in our garden, in the home, everywhere I had an oportunity to do so , short bursts of training so that he didnt get bored . I would really recommend you read Pippas book Total Recall , it really does help to establish a good level of recall from pups and adult dogs alike . The problem with keeping your boy on lead is that once allowed off, he might decie to run
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Hi Graham, I've got Dexter a 13 month old yellow boy who is our first dog....I really thought I'd read up and prepared for him but I wish I'd found this site and forum 12 months before we got him! Dexter is working line bred but he will never work so my perspective is always from a pet owner . I was terrified to let him off the lead but I bit the bullet and did it as soon as we got him .....I've been really lucky and never had any serious absconds.....but I was always nervous and my comfort zone of having him off lead and away from me was really small( someone said it was practically a heel ;D ;D ;D) Then I found the site and bought Total Recall.iIts really worked well for us and given me masses of confidence.We still have our sticking points at times ,other dogs,cats,the park rabbit, but that's something we can keep working on when practice opps arise.Even though those aspects aren't reliable,working through the program has helped me realise this and 'plan' and understand how to manage Dexter safely at these points on our walks. As I say I'm a novice but I've read several times that it's important to get your dog off lead when they are young and there's a period of time when they are younger ,I think that window has probably closed for Widgeon ( I. Missed it with Dex too ),that you can really use to build their attachment to you. Good luck,let is know how you go Best wishes Angela
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Hi Graham, and welcome to the forum. I have four spaniels, all of them working gundogs. I start to manage their off lead time outside very carefully when they start to show the first signs of independence, usually around 6 months of age. That means I don't allow any free running in areas where they might encounter game. Most of their off lead time will be taken up by retrieving games to kick start their desire to retrieve. As my dogs are spaniels I also practise hunting close to me and finding tennis balls. But I go to quite some length to make sure that there are no pheasants or rabbits on our training ground. I will either hunt one of my older dogs through the area or walk through myself, only then will I take out a puppy for training. So, my advise would be to manage your dog's off lead time very carefully. Practise retrieving in areas where he won't get an accidental flush followed by a very self rewarding chase and where you can reinforce the recall. Maybe have a few more lessons with a gundog trainer and possibly join a club for group training sessions.
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Hi Graham, and welcome to the forum That depends on whether you are able to follow Heidrun's advice and ensure that he won't accidentally flush another pheasant. I expect your trainer is very concerned at the potential for a repeat performance of your dog's last chase. A chasing habit is so hard to break it is well worth pulling out all the stops at this age to ensure it doesn't happen. My young Labradors are not allowed free running except under very controlled conditions (in an enclosed paddock or the middle of a large open field for example). Once they get past the puppy stage (6-7months) for the most part they are at heel unless retrieving. This restriction also ensures that every last ounce of energy is poured into those retrieves. Obviously this would not suit a pet dog owner, but if you want a shooting companion, it is worth every effort at this age to avoid chasing wildlife, and to teach your retriever that being at heel throughout thick and thin, is his default position. It sounds as though your trainer would like you to focus on heelwork now, which makes sense. You can work on recall again later once this is sorted. Provided you are not in the meantime giving the dog opportunities to disobey a recall, no harm will be done.
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Hi Graham, welcome So I'm a first time dog owner and Riley is a pet first and foremost. I am trying hard to do some gundog training with him though. We had a phase which may well have started at 6 months without us noticing but was fully in force by 9 months where Riley's recall was appalling round other dogs (it's still something we work hard at). Riley went back inti his harness and onto a long line for around 6 weeks while we worked very hard at improving his recall under controlled circumstances. I asked a trainer with well trained dogs to help me you may want a trainer with a bird or rabbit pen at some point to help you as your problem is more prey drive than other dogs. As a pet owner I like walking my dog and I like to see him have a good sniff and a rummage but I want him to always come back. This desire to walk him has (absolutely no doubt in my mind) impacted the speed at which our recall has improved and means it's still not perfect but we will keep working on it. I would say any work you can do now whilst preventing him self rewarding will pay dividends! And in the grand scheme a couple of months or so on a line isn't a long time. I can barely remember when we were stuck on a line for all. Those weeks and Riley's only 2 and a 1/2 although my memory is pants!! ;D Good luck and let us know how you go!
Re: Off the lead mistake?? [quote author=editor link=topic=3212.msg34770#msg34770 date=1384093147] My young Labradors are not allowed free running except under very controlled conditions (in an enclosed paddock or the middle of a large open field for example). Once they get past the puppy stage (6-7months) for the most part they are at heel unless retrieving. [/quote] I've heard similar, and from my trainer, and I'm mulling over what I do with Charlie. Today, he was on a lead or at heel unless playing with us and engaged in a game of some sort (a constructive game, recalls and find it's etc) - but I had people with me, so it was easy to think of ways to keep him occupied. I do wonder though, does a dog gets enough exercise in this way - particularly if the number of retrieves is still limited? It may be the difference between working and pets, of course, Pippa's dogs maybe aren't on their backs on the sofa between pet dog walks...
Re: Off the lead mistake?? [quote author=editor link=topic=3212.msg34770#msg34770 date=1384093147] My young Labradors are not allowed free running except under very controlled conditions (in an enclosed paddock or the middle of a large open field for example). Once they get past the puppy stage (6-7months) for the most part they are at heel unless retrieving. [/quote] I'm still on the lookout for locations like these and I dream of having my own land so I can have it exactly as I want it. I've found a couple of sheep fenced spots but they're all open to everyone and on a sunny Sunday like today are pretty busy
Re: Off the lead mistake?? [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3212.msg34806#msg34806 date=1384105998] [quote author=editor link=topic=3212.msg34770#msg34770 date=1384093147] My young Labradors are not allowed free running except under very controlled conditions (in an enclosed paddock or the middle of a large open field for example). Once they get past the puppy stage (6-7months) for the most part they are at heel unless retrieving. [/quote] I'm still on the lookout for locations like these and I dream of having my own land so I can have it exactly as I want it. I've found a couple of sheep fenced spots but they're all open to everyone and on a sunny Sunday like today are pretty busy [/quote] We should put our finances together Barbara and buy a paddock to do what we want in I am lucky to use Kims' paddock but she is selling up so not for much longer
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Not sure my 50p will go very far Helen ;D I am considering joining a gundog club just off the A303 so I can use their facilities. It's 30 minutes away but could be worth it. I'd hoped the trainer near me would do something similar but they train on a working farm so it's not possible.
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Oh dear my 50p won't get us much either ;D That sounds like an option for you, who is the trainer?
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Off the A303? Mullenscote Gundogs.....which is where Riley's dad is at stud and we did courses there before Lizzie came along but afterwards the hour there and back was a bit much when there were good trainers closer to home. I think they've just put a pond in though which would be handy for training. I don't think we'd go every day (I do have to work!) but every now and then
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Ah yes would be good for you. I don't know if Skovellsway Gun dog Training would be nearer for you Barbara not far from the Army Base on the road into Winchester. Just a thought
Re: Off the lead mistake?? Great minds Helen We're going to Scovellsway for classes but they're the ones on the farm so you can't use their training grounds outside of classes we're enjoying the classes though. Sorry Graham we seem to have hijacked your thread somewhat : apologies!!!
Re: Off the lead mistake?? LOL no probs!! Little update, we went to a field nr me that I know plenty of dog walk through (so little chance of a stray pheasant) and as he had walked nicely I slipped off his lead. Well talk about a kid in a sweetshop!!! He never really went out of my 'comfort zone' and I had to wait until he was facing the other way before making a noise and running so he would chance me, then whistle and call and a sausage when he got to me. Every time, full pelt then sat in front without being asked waiting and looking up.... How proud was I?? I decided not to test him for a few days so as not to endanger the recall......BUT..... I was so engrossed in him I failed to see a fellow dog walker with a rather playful springer who we have met before, he was off at full speed. Without thinking I called him (wrong I know) and he stopped dead and trotted back.... ;D ;D. He had a pocket full if treats then!! I had him sitting until the other dog was almost nose to nose before clipping on his lead and almost stroking his fur off..!! He does know how to behave, just decides not to clearly!!! Thanks for the advise
