Hi everyone, Firstly my apologies for not posting about our training it has been a busy week one way or another Anyway, last Saturday we met Annette in a local wood/common close to her training facility, she wanted to see Charlie in a "live' situation rather than a training ground. Her first words were "wow he is a stunning boy" well we knew that already ;D Annette popped Charlie onto a 10 meter training line and off we went and played lots of hide and seek, calling him between all of us, the boys playing ball between them, also just stopping and letting Charlie have some "down time" just milling around on the line. It was great fun and no pressure. Annette feels we have been so stressed and tense with Charlie and that has affected our training but she totally understands why this has happened as this hasn't been an easy journey, but we need to change our relationship with him by limiting our attention by 50% - 75% and using it as our tool, this is a hard one especially with children : but we are doing it. We need to have FUN and not be so serious and not put so much pressure on ourselves. She also feels that all of our training has been in enclosed areas and his recall has not been properly tested, she also thinks that "there was little or no evidence of prey drive in the true sense of the word and it's a phrase that gets chucked around without really understanding it". I did explain that he did return to us twice and collapsed in with exhaustion but she was still not convinced. She did comment that she felt Charlie is an adrenaline fuelled dog which is not easy at all. We spent 2 hours in the woods with Charlie on a dropped line on and off and no running off and he had ample opportunity to do so, he was watching us and came after us when we moved away or called him and no whistle was used. There were lots of distractions with people, children etc. We met lots of off lead dogs and all went well apart from one very silly man who let his absolutely monstrously huge Labrador bound up straight into Charlie's face which he did not like and reacted by telling 'Kip" off. Annette was cross as the owner knows her and could see she was 'training' and he should have put his dog on lead and again no apology, but we didn't let this spoil our afternoon as it was not Charlie's fault. Charlie did so well Annette wanted to let him OFF LEAD but we were too anxious for that, so maybe next time. Annette informed us that we have not done anything wrong with the training infact we have done a great job other than the 30 meter line has to go and so he is back on a 10 meter line She told us to take him into the woods and drop the line and TRUST Charlie and RELAX and adjust our body language as he is picking up on it and to do all the games we did with her, we did this on Sunday and to our surprise it all went really well, he did wonder a little too far but I used my recall whistle and about 30 seonds later he came back, we walked down the hill throwing his ball and he had a great time retrieving it every time, we ended up back at the river and he did 3 excellent water retrieves jumping straight in and grabbing his ball first time every time he was like a 'true pro' and in some pretty rough current too (on a line line). It was the best walk we have ever had with him in 2 1/2 years Annette is setting up a training schedule as follows:_ Relaxing and calming techniques to help with him let go of some of his adrenaline Assess off lead exercise and upping the ante with open horizon areas To help Charlie with self control around other dogs and in class situations Recall in a controlled situation and then upping with distractions on rabbity and deer areas Walking/handling with Hattie for a couple of sessions Also we have to use 80% of his daily food for training which I find pretty difficult and quite boring as there are only so many sits/downs etc you can do for that much food. He has his breakfast on a walk but it's a tough with the remainder. A detailed schedule but we are definitely up for it. We were completely honest in our description of Charlie and us and we had a lovely time and we have faith in Annette and her abilities and she feels Charlie needs and can be an off lead dog in a controlled way. We feel positive and are carrying out all the training advised and Charlie has been on a dropped lead for most of the week and doing really well. Hopefully we will be meeting up with her in the next couple of weeks to really get started. Sorry I rambled on a bit there but wanted to cover everything which I am sure I haven't : I value any comments anyone has. Thank you xx
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS That is such amazing news! You must be so pleased. It seems like you've done masses of the work already, and someone with a fresh pair of eyes might be able to help you translate it into what you really want. Thrilled for you! No comments yet, as will go back and read what you've written more carefully first. There are some great things in it!
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Yes, thrilled for you. I had been worried as we hadn't heard, so it is great to know you had a successful and fun time.
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Great to hear about your day, Helen. ;D Do you think your trainer differentiated between prey drive and hunting drive with her observations of Charlie?
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS [quote author=heidrun link=topic=4780.msg59266#msg59266 date=1394226136] Great to hear about your day, Helen. ;D Do you think your trainer differentiated between prey drive and hunting drive with her observations of Charlie? [/quote] Heidrun, Is there a difference? :-\ I forgot to add Annette observed Charlie who was on a scent a few times and she felt he showed more Pointer behaviour, lucky us .
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS I think there might be. I always understood prey drive as the dog wanting to chase, catch and possibly kill the prey. Take Murffi for example, he has got no prey drive in that sense but he has got a very high hunting drive. He wants to hunt and when he flushes a pheasant or rabbit he will turn and hunt on in the other direction. He has no desire to actually chase down and grab the pheasant or rabbit.
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Yes, I've always thought of prey drive as the desire to chase a moving object. Sounds like the session with Annette could not have been better!!! How completely brilliant So happy to read your wonderful update.
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS [quote author=heidrun link=topic=4780.msg59269#msg59269 date=1394227062] I think there might be. I always understood prey drive as the dog wanting to chase, catch and possibly kill the prey. Take Murffi for example, he has got no prey drive in that sense but he has got a very high hunting drive. He wants to hunt and when he flushes a pheasant or rabbit he will turn and hunt on in the other direction. He has no desire to actually chase down and grab the pheasant or rabbit. [/quote] So did I describe him incorrectly as having 'high prey drive' ? Is Charlie a hunter? :-\ :-\ We did say as far as we know he hasn't caught or killed prey but he does chase it like many dogs do. He did catch a wounded Pheasant once but a firm 'drop' command and he dropped it.
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Don't worry about how you described it Annette got to see his behaviour and assess it in a realistic situation and that would have given her all the info she needed
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS I am so glad that the session went well Annette's comments and assurance about the good training you have already put in must be reassuring Look forward to hearing about your other sessions when they happen xx
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Yippee!! I am so thrilled to read this, how wonderful that you have been able to enjoy him in a walk situation even a little bit!! It's amazing how they pick up on the signals we are giving, isn't it?? Wow, how great! Can't wait to hear more!
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Helen, what does Annette mean when she says to give him between 50 -75 % of your attention? Your attention when you are on a walk and he is off lead? Sorry, but I don't quite understand.
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Helen , you know how thrilled I am , its so lovely to hear positivity re Charlie, just grand news ;D ;D
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS [quote author=heidrun link=topic=4780.msg59345#msg59345 date=1394267298] Helen, what does Annette mean when she says to give him between 50 -75 % of your attention? Your attention when you are on a walk and he is off lead? Sorry, but I don't quite understand. [/quote] I wondered about that too and thought perhaps it was oriented around interaction. You see some people who talk and touch their dogs a lot and it adds anxiety. Also they get so much attention it's not a valuable commodity to them....but I'm fascinated to find out what this actually means for Helen and Charlie! Don't keep us in suspense too long. We're so thrilled for you here ;D
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS Don't be alarmed if she has said that Charlie is more Pointer than Lab;if it is German Pointer it is manageable as they don't range as far as a Pointer. It does sound as if she understands working dogs and can point you in the right direction on how to introduce control. Don't forget that German Pointers improve tremendously between the ages of 3 and 4 years as they mature
Re: Our Training at HAMBLE HOUNDS [quote author=heidrun link=topic=4780.msg59345#msg59345 date=1394267298] Helen, what does Annette mean when she says to give him between 50 -75 % of your attention? Your attention when you are on a walk and he is off lead? Sorry, but I don't quite understand. [/quote] Barbara that's exactly the reason, if the whole family withdraws 50 - 75% of our attention which includes no eye contact, in theory Charlie should value our company/attention outside. Annette said it's a common mistake with a lot of dog owners and especially when you take on a rescue dog. We have to look at our lack of attention as a valuable training tool. Thank you for all your positive replies, I just hope it all works BUT still a very long way to go. xxx
