Just thought I'd post an update on Project Puppy. This project came about after much discussion on the forum about Crufts show champions, their conformation and their fitness for purpose as a retriever. My plan is to purchase a show quality puppy and compete in shows at the highest level possible to demonstrate the dog has an appropriate conformation to win shows. At the same time he/she will undertake my usual gundog training and when he/she is a couple of years old get him to spend a season working hard picking up. This I think would inevitably lead to the dog losing at least 5kg to go from show condition to working condition. Then, when in full fitness and in working condition I would put him/her back in the show ring and see if we could do as well - in other words are the judges truly selecting winners based entirely on conformation or are they perhaps expecting these show dogs to be too fat, and is the bias of working lab owners against show-type labs being not fit for purpose truly just bias and if trained like working bred labs can a high quality show dog hold its own on a seasons shooting. So, this is the plan. However, obstacles became apparent quite rapidly to this plan, the first being that breeders of show quality puppies (as opposed to just show-type dogs) are incredibly fussy who they sell high quality pups to and that did not necessarily include me! So, to try to overcome this obstacle I have joined the local breed club and am spending time going to shows, ringcraft classes etc and getting to know who the breeders are of top quality show pups. Volunteering to be the local show vet seems to increase my popularity amongst breeders too! It is a totally new world to me coming from a shooting background since childhood, and having a decent knowledge of working dog pedigrees I find I have little or no idea about show dog pedigrees. A second obstacle is to convince my OH that a third dog is a good idea. So far he has been introduced to the concept of Project Puppy in an abstract, wouldn't-this-be-an-interesting-thing-to-do sort of way. Once I find my show quality pup he may discover it in a rather less abstract way... Anyone who has any ideas on improvements to my project please feel free to post, and if anyone happens to know of any high quality show pups with winning potential please feel free to PM me. I will post updates as they occur.
Re: Project Puppy Very interesting project. Would you be planning on doing working tests or trials or just picking up.
Re: Project Puppy As I said before, this is very inspirational - if there were more people with this attitude, we need not be so worried about the labrador breed becoming split. And good things on both sides would be better shared. Wishing you the best of luck - and hoping that you meet more people who are positive and encouraging, than negative and discouraging (I fear you will meet a fair few though).
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73132#msg73132 date=1399126001] Very interesting project. Would you be planning on doing working tests or trials or just picking up. [/quote] If all goes to plan I'd do some working tests and pick up the same as with my current two dogs. I think it adds to the project by giving a measurable objective, the same as winning in the show ring. I don't think I have the time (or talent) to trial though.
Re: Project Puppy That sounds like a brilliant idea, I am glad you are still pursuing this project, remember your musings on an earlier thread You have got me thinking actually, whilst browsing I think it was the labrador retriever website, they have a list of showing winning lines, in the top five are Carpenny and Sandylanes labradors,our pup comes from both his dad is a Carpenny and his Grandad was Sandylanes. Bensons mum is a working line dog. I didn't actually understand his pedigree when we bought him, just thought he was a gorgeous pup! It does explain his calm nature and the uphill struggle to light the fire of interest in retrieving, ??? ;D. I am thinking of maybe having a go at ringcraftperhaps, we have a really good labrador group nearby in Bath, I might see what they think? Does anyone else here show their labradors, tbh I don't really have a clue...
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Lochan link=topic=5734.msg73139#msg73139 date=1399127830] [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73132#msg73132 date=1399126001] Very interesting project. Would you be planning on doing working tests or trials or just picking up. [/quote] If all goes to plan I'd do some working tests and pick up the same as with my current two dogs. I think it adds to the project by giving a measurable objective, the same as winning in the show ring. I don't think I have the time (or talent) to trial though. [/quote] Well done you for trying this. I sincerely wish you all the best with this project and look forward to following your progress.
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=5734.msg73142#msg73142 date=1399128057] Does anyone else here show their labradors, tbh I don't really have a clue... [/quote] I don't although am not disinterested, other things have occupied me. And anyway, Charlie is a reasonable quality pet dog from show lines, and not a future show champ - at all. That need not stop me though, there are endless, endless local and district shows with only 3 or 4 dogs entered in the class and I think if I were to try long enough I'd probably get a place somewhere (although might be 4 of 4!). If you fancy having a go, I'd say definitely investigate it, it's bound to be great fun. I think it's useful to first read up on what showing a labrador is all about. The breed standard (short version) is here: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=2048 This website illustrates the breed standard (get out your ruler!) and I find it really useful to see pictures: http://www.dellaterradelmare.it/the-labrador-standard.html Some tips on getting started are here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activities/dog-showing/new-to-dog-showing/
Re: Project Puppy Sterling work Lochan Its a very interesting project , so looking forward to reading more Sam is pure working stock , he doesnt work but we do gundog type training, it keeps him happy and me fit ( ish ) . Certainly not show material , far too leggy, but loved all the same
Re: Project Puppy Wow, what a great idea, Lochlan!! I must have missed your earlier thread about it. I wish you all the best, my hat is off in admiration for taking this on! Looking forward to updates, I will be following this with interest!
Re: Project Puppy I think this is fab- hope you manage to smuggle the pup under OH's radar ;D ;D By the way... [quote author=Lochan link=topic=5734.msg73121#msg73121 date=1399123889] .......breeders of show quality puppies (as opposed to just show-type dogs) are incredibly fussy who they sell high quality pups to and that did not necessarily include me! [/quote] ....oh my word, if they wouldn't sell to you, who would they sell to??!! (Already well known show handlers I suppose. Hmmph :) Very good thinking in deploying the Vet card though!
Re: Project Puppy An interesting concept and I would love you to achieve it. I have been to training classes with a show dog who also works regularly picking up, he just lacks that certain something, very nice dog but not much drive.
Re: Project Puppy Well, one of the dogs who got the highest mark at our exam yesterday (did I mention we passed??? ) was a big chocolate lab, looked like show line to me, though in very fine fettle, chunky but not fat
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Karen link=topic=5734.msg73225#msg73225 date=1399146121] Well, one of the dogs who got the highest mark at our exam yesterday (did I mention we passed??? ) [/quote] I hadn't heard that ;D ;D ;D Well done I think this is fantastic Lochan. Very cloak and dagger - I like it I had been wondering if it was just a passing thought before, but clearly not. Just tell OH that we all support you and if he puts the kybosh on it he will have a bunch of forum members coming to lynch him ;D It just HAS to be done!
Re: Project Puppy Choose a Chocolate one then Lochan, think you will have more luck, they do seem to have retained more drive ;D
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Stacia link=topic=5734.msg73215#msg73215 date=1399144263] An interesting concept and I would love you to achieve it. I have been to training classes with a show dog who also works regularly picking up, he just lacks that certain something, very nice dog but not much drive. [/quote] Thank you for your earlier information Stacia, I think with our pup he lacks a certain drive, however we will work on that! Certainly compared to Nayas fabulous lab Harley..who left poor Benson standing in the "keenness" stakes! ;D ;D
Re: Project Puppy I honestly don't think its right to conclude that show line dogs lack drive, and working lines don't. There very well may be something in that at very serious levels of competition, but I reckon it seems even stevens for the average dog with nurture rather than nature playing a huge part. There seems to be plenty of owners of working line dogs, as well as show, carefully nurturing a weaker than a average drive along.
