So, dog training is all about proofing...I DO get that....but....why is it taking me so long? My dog is very willing, he'll keep working even when I mess it up and stop rewarding him (he is still trying, and offering behaviours, as my trainer says "cut! stop! that's all gone wrong!" ;D ). And despite what I say about him, seems to pick up new stuff easily enough, although he is very easily distracted. Yesterday, I wasn't getting very good results with new canvas dummies with toggles on....reviewing why that might be later and I realised I'd changed too much - the dummies were new, AND had a toggle on them. Plus, we had a little bit of cover so were in a slightly different environment. Sigh....back to the spreadsheet. Really. Such baby steps with this. Keep everything the same then add a toggle OR a few bunches of heather - not both at the same time. It's painful. But, is it me that makes it more painful than it needs to be? Is there something I could do to be more effective? Or do more experienced trainers just know this, and work through it automatically without mentioning what an absolute pain it is at times?
Re: Proofing.... I think, having wrote that, that I've just moved on to "flappy stuff" in general too quickly. I haven't had the reliable "bring it back" for very long, and maybe it's just too soon to introduce flappy stuff....
Re: Proofing.... One of the best pieces of training advice I've had was from Heidrun when I was training the stop whistle. It was very simple advice but very important that it takes months to train the stop whistle. My point is, and I'm not sure if it's relevant to you, I expected too much from my dogs. After that advice I stopped pushing and just moved on at their pace, well within reason Scott has no pace if given the chance, and that's how I've progressed with all my training. I still get frustrated at times obviously but not like I did. Charlie is still young I do think that's an important thing to remember and on top of that he has a tendency to be excitable. You've proofed Charlie against so many things very successfully including things most of us wouldn't even think of. You will get there just take your time and don't worry about it.
Re: Proofing.... Hey Julie what would you do with yourself (& Charlie) if you didn't have to keep working at stuff! Also Charlie's antics always make me LOL and give me hope ...please don't stop!!! L
Re: Proofing.... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10293.msg151176#msg151176 date=1427015455] Yes, all very true... It's going to take decades at this rate though! ;D ;D ;D [/quote] So .
Re: Proofing.... I think a lot of it depends on how ingrained a habit has become. It is much easier to proof behaviours with a very young dog than an older dog. Free hunting is one example, if that has gone on for some time than bringing it under control and proofing it in all sorts of situations will be difficult. Same goes for 'free-style' retrieving.
Re: Proofing.... I've got this working test training weekend in May...I had a plan worked out to cover off 4 or 5 things before it....and I'm not getting through the plan! Practicalities always get in the way of "it'll take as long as it takes"! ;D ;D ;D Which doesn't stop it being true, of course...
Re: Proofing.... Most people don't really set goals or have benchmarks to aim for. Therefore they don't notice or worry if they're not working through the goals 'on schedule'. You DO have goals, and a schedule, and you are continually re-setting what constitutes success. For example, Charlie recently got excited around radio controlled cars. Most people would say "well I'll give those damn things a wide berth in future!!". But you say "I need to buy a radio controlled car and become proficient in its use so I can desensitise my dog to radio controlled cars". There is nothing wrong with that!!!!!! But it becomes a new criterion for success. You never give yourself the chance to rest on your laurels. Again, that is fine!!!!!!! But all I'm saying is that you are more goal oriented and dedicated than most Me, I'm lazy. If I had any laurels I'd be reclining on them pronto with a Piña Colada ;D
Re: Proofing.... I have to say I agree entirely with what Oberon says Just take it easy and relax for a while. On a more flippant side, I would get a dummy with toggle on, a lot of heather cover and chuck it in deep and let Charlie get on with it and see what happens. I guess your trainer would have kittens though and probably rightly so!
Re: Proofing.... [quote author=Stacia link=topic=10293.msg151205#msg151205 date=1427021554] I would get a dummy with toggle on, a lot of heather cover and chuck it in deep and let Charlie get on with it and see what happens. [/quote] No, I've done that. He runs round with it, I bribe him (with another dummy) to come back, he gives it me (because he's been bribed), I throw the next dummy and try not to bribe him by putting the second dummy behind my back...and so on. He then does start bringing them back but it's definitely still in the "amber" categories with little run arounds and messings and didn't get better than that. I didn't get to move it into "green" which is what I was hoping for. So I've got to go back a step - I think I'll just do cover with dummies. No toggles....
Re: Proofing.... My goals for Gypsy need to be all realised by the time she is twelve months old, so I understand what training under time pressure is like (I know yours is self-inflicted, but it's time pressure all the same) I think the secret is not to communicate that to the dog and to have an 'I've got all the time in the world' attitude. We have been working on 'stay' in as many different places as possible. Today I read the reading in Church and asked her to stay, put her lead down and went up and read. She did it! She sat and watched me the whole time. I was fully expecting her to come up and join me ;D
Re: Proofing.... I think Barbara has hit the nail on the head Julie. You set yourself loads of goals, and maybe should give yourself more credit than you do for all that you have achieved
Re: Proofing.... Well, Charlie is much better these days. But very little is "finished" as in properly, properly proofed. I do think that experienced trainers must just get through it faster. I think probably, they don't make mistakes, and judge better exactly how far to move on and when. I think I don't judge this well and spend longer than I should on things, or move on a bit too quickly and it goes wrong so I have to go back and repeat.
Re: Proofing.... Don't forget this is your first dog and you are trying to do it 'properly' which means there is a lot to think about and learn. I think you are doing magnificently; it has taken me years to get where I am today
Re: Proofing.... Don't forget too that your dog has two roles which are both extreme in terms of stimulation. Many working dogs will never see a football match because they train and work places that don't have them. Yes they deal with all the gundog stuff in a number of environments but not as many as you're trying to proof. Riley would go absolutely bonkers on the common!!!
Re: Proofing.... Also, Charlie is quite an exciteable character.. He's just not one of those dogs who say 'radio controlled cars.. Boring'. No, he will want to investigate things all his life - that's part of his character, and let's face it, that unbounded enthusiasm is also part of what makes him so loveable. You do so well Julie, I could never be as systematic and thorough as you are.
Re: Proofing.... [quote author=Karen link=topic=10293.msg151263#msg151263 date=1427039879] No, he will want to investigate things all his life - that's part of his character [/quote] I think so...I don't think he is going to "grow out of it". A bit of me was really hoping that some of his behaviour is just juvenile. I think bits were (maybe still are) but I don't think he will ever be truly steady to balls, or dummies - although I think I'll get him a lot better than he is now. Indeed anything thrown or moving, really (or footballs at all, they don't even really need to be moving). Except wildlife, we can do birds, rabbits and squirrels just fine - and cats. He was nuts today. Zooming round like a mad dog, leaping over tree trunks and streams, attacking branches and dragging them round. I think my trainer thinks he is a dog that should work - I don't mean going shooting, I think he is just too nutty to ever be around a loaded gun and all indications are, so far anyway, that he is inclined to go jump on people firing guns just because bangs are exciting : - but in theory, if he had a job to do that means some of this crazy energy goes away he'd be more sensible. It's true that he is a whole lot better when he is training hard enough to be tired. But that doesn't happen most days.
