Following on from my thread on Ripple's behaviour and OH overfeeding him last week, I an now looking into protein levels in food. I've read the older threads on here, and some articles, and it would appear that high protein feeds causing hyperactivity is considered a myth. However, I would like to try reducing the levels of protein in Ripple's food to satisfy my concerns about his food being linked to his behaviour. Currently I feed Millie's Wolfheart at around 30% protein, I switched to this from Royal Canin as I was looking for a better quality food. Is there a good quality dry kibble that anyone can suggest that has a lower protein content? Millie's Wolfheart do some lower protein foods but they appear to have higher carbohydrate levels which I'm concerned could cause weight increase. I'm really confused as how to find a quality protein food that has lower protein levels .
Hi there Well, if the percentage of protein is decreased in a food, then the percentage of either carbs or fat must increase. You can't move from (eg) a 30% level of protein to (eg) a 20% level of protein without something taking up the extra 10%. I do believe that high protein levels contributing to excitable behaviour is a total myth. Betsy is fed on Orijen, a (marketing term) biologically appropriate food, and because it is mainly meat, it has a very high protein level. She is a bitey, jumpy, normal puppy (and I'd be worried is she was not) she is extremely easy to train, and much, much calmer than my 3.5 year old dog (fed a much lower protein level food). This state of affairs is nothing to do with the protein levels in the food they eat, and completely to do with the fact I'm now a better trainer of puppies, and was on a much steeper learning curve with Charlie than with Betsy.
I don't really want to ignite the debate on high protein food and behaviour as my reading confirms this as a myth. I'm just hoping to get some views on good quality foods that I can try to see if Ripple does respond differently. My previous labs were fed on a lower protein food but of a much poorer quality, and although they were much more laid back than Ripple I wouldn't like to return to this food due to my concerns over the additives in it and the actual quality of the protein.
Ok...but then, sorry, what is it that you are looking for? You said: So if you want lower protein, and lower carbs...you want to feed a higher percentage of fat?
I've confused myself I think, I'd like lower protein but is it ok to feed a food with higher carbs? Higher fat wouldn't be the right way to go I assume. How would the ratio of protein to carbs affect a dog? Currently Ripple's poo is often quite lose, despite cutting his food down, but then he does eat a lot of rubbish if he can, particularly grass cuttings when they cut our local parks. 'Leave it' is an ongoing process.
I feed Annie Millie's Wolfheart. She loves it and she has Riverside mix, Duck with Trout because she can't eat any chicken. Fred is on Adult Royal Canin and has anyways been on Royal Canin with no problems. If you are having problems with Ripple's poo why don't you give your vet a ring and ask them for advice. I am sure they would not mind.
It's quite simple (in its simplest form). There are three "macronutrients" - these are the food groups that give you calories. They are: protein, carbohydrates and fat. So, any food can be split into these three things. If it's, say, 30% protein, 20% fat and 50% carbs, then if you reduce the percentage of protein, the difference has to be made up between the other two. Again, simplistically, both protein and carbs are 4 calories per gramme, and fat is 9 calories per gramme. So, if you go to a diet with a higher percentage of fat, you need a lower weight of food to get the same calories. Fat isn't bad. In fact, it's an essential nutrient. Dietary fat also does not equal body fat. An excess of calories leads to body fat. I can't give you the answers you're looking for in terms of what food is best, but I'd suggest you do a bit more reading around the optimum levels of each macronutrient - and their best sources, which is another point of interest - for your dog.
@snowbunny nothing in this dog owning lark is easy any more - I blame the Internet . I'm also looking at his treats and taking out anything with additives as it seems silly to feed him good quality food and what could be poor quality treats. Ripple had very kindly pooed in his crate this morning so if I needed a spur to sort out his diet this certainly helped - can't remember the last time he did that. He's fine in himself so I'm not sure why that happened.
I never feed commercial dog treats, because they're massively over-priced. I either use kibble (boring but I can use a lot), roast chicken, little cubes of cheese, leftover meat cubed really small, turkey frankfurters, "crab" sticks, liver that I dehydrate myself, homemade fish biscuits... the list goes on! All is far, far cheaper than bought treats; the amount of treats we go through, I'd be bankrupt if I fed those!
I use Arden Grange Lamb and Rice, the poos are well formed most of the time For treats you could make some home made ones, recipes on internet, Liver Biscuits and Sardine Biscuits, cook and then cut into tiny squares and freeze. There are lots of healthy treats @JulieT has used some good fishy ones so, will be able to tell you what they are.
I think Julie mainly uses sea biscuits, which are from Fish4Dogs. I lied before, I have bought and used these. The dogs love them, but they're too big for me for everyday use, so I now make my own http://www.fish4dogs.com/Products/sea-biscuit-tiddlers.aspx
I do make homemade biscuits and liver treats but I tend to top them up with various stick and sausage things from the pet shop which are sold loose. I have just ordered some sea biscuits - I did get a big discount but still quite expensive so probably homemade is best. Ripple didn't seem all that interested in chicken when I had it, but he really loves cheese. Mind you he was almost beside himself with excitement when I was making vegetarian enchiladas last night .
Molly's on James Wellbeloved duck and rice and has kickable poos (great wood near my sister's in Somerset with a sign saying 'please just kick your dog's poo into the undergrowth!) I occasionally buy shop treats but mostly use homemade liver cake, which is much cheaper and valued, especially if heated in the microwave. You could just buy a small bag of something and try it for a week or so.
Have you considered feeding a raw diet, ie raw meaty bones, raw meat, raw organs? There is an obesity epidemic in the world, not only among humans, but among pet dogs, too. And if you look at what obese humans are eating, it's a diet extremely high in sugar, ie carbohydrates. Everything processed seems to have sugar in it. Fat content is also high to make those processed items palatable. Then look at processed dog food. Very high carb. And sprayed with oil to make the pellets palatable. I'm not against high fat -- the body needs fat. Slimming diets often cut out fat to the detriment of the person or dog. I am against high processed carbohydrates -- just look at all the diabetics (both humans and dogs). The problem with excess protein when metabolised, though, is that it gets converted to sugar, so you don't want to feed excessive protein. But neither do you want to feed excessive carbs. The total calorie count needs to be just right for your dog. It's such a balancing act, I am the first to confess! I also confess that I wish someone would restrict my diet as strictly as I do Snowie's!! Snowie eats whole raw meaty bones, meat, organs, etc (and he gets lots of raw veg as treats to lie quietly on his bed, often when we're cooking -- we're vegetarian so there is a LOT of veg in our house) and I often get comments how good he looks for a Labrador, ie he's not a typically overweight Lab! I once was told I must be careful with raw meat because it makes dogs aggressive. So far, no evidence from my one dog and all the raw fed dogs I know. You also hear that vegetarians are far more laid back. I would say this is a gross generalisation; there are so many contributing factors. Regarding sugar, there are studies that link high carbs to hyperactivity.
@MF I have thought about a raw food diet and I even started to make a few of his meals raw but as I was buying ready prepared raw it was very expensive. At the moment I don't feel confident enough to make a complete change to raw. I used to be vegetarian but have now added fish back into my diet (and the occasional organic chicken and locally produced organic sausages ), but I was never a 'laid back' vegetarian .
The prepared meals are more expensive. I feed Snowie whole bones and whole meats, although I also buy mince to add variety. I get his food delivered by a guy who sells human-grade raw meat and bones but for the dog food market -- so it's mostly the bits that humans don't normally buy, making it cheaper, ie kidneys, hearts, tripe, trachea with lungs, bone with a little meat attached, ie no steaks and chicken breasts! There is probably a Facebook page for your area devoted to raw feeding which can help you find out where you can source cheaper alternatives. I did a quick search "Raw Feeding Scotland" and there were several search results.
