Hi there! Its been a while since I have been on here, I hope everyone is well! Duke is now 4 months old, and has grown so much! Potty training was successful, he goes down to the door and sits when he wants out! He sleeps through the night in his crate, and is crated while we are at work. Nothing ( knock on wood) has been torn to shreds from chewing, (yet) lol. He has over all been an awesome little puppy, we've been very successful at sit and stay or wait. He sits and wait for dinner and waits to be told when its okay to eat. We take him off leash all the time, and he sticks right to us, strays off, but comes right back when called. He also comes to work with me, I work at a dog boarding kennel, and he is doing very well with being socialized with all sorts of dogs. I'm so impressed with him! Such a smart boy! However. I'm struggling with one thing, he pulls bad on the lead. I'm not sure how to go about correcting this. I have a greyhound also, who is so fabulous on leash, just trots by my side, you don't even know your walking a dog. Duke is another story, but this is something that means a lot to me, I work with dogs, and can't stand a dog that rips your arm out when you walk them. Any tips tricks or suggestions would be wonderful!! Thanks guys!
Re: pulling on the lead, help! Sounds like you are doing a brilliant job with him! He sounds divine. With the lead pulling, I think that the single most important thing (essential, really) is to never, ever, ever, ever allow pulling to get your pup anywhere. When he pulls he is doing it to achieve a goal that he wants - whether that's moving forward, sniffing something, saying hi to someone. Allowing him to achieve thise goals by pulling gives him a huge reward for the pulling. So it's really important to make sure he never gets anywhere by pulling. Pulling needs to become a total waste of effort for him. When he puts tension on the lead, you stop dead. Don't let him pull you a single half-step. Ever. Wait till he slackens off (even just a bit) and then continue. Changing direction at that point can also be extremely effective - a U-turn or just taking a different path suddenly. The other thing to do is to actively show Duke the way that he is supposed to be walking by training (ie. marking and rewarding) loose lead walking or walking by your leg. If you haven't read it yet, you might find this article useful: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/walking-your-labrador-on-a-loose-lead/ It has links to other helpful articles.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! That's exactly what we did - absolutely not one step was taken with a tight lead. Even from the front door to the car, not one step!! Some of our walks didn't go very far to start with but he soon got the hang of it and to this day if he starts to creep forward I stop and he reverses back into position. Good luck, be absolutely consistent and you'll get there. You've clearly done a great job of training so far you'll soon have this licked!
Re: pulling on the lead, help! Hi. So glad Duke is settled in well and learning so quickly I brought a harness for Harley and it has made a vast difference in me being able to control her. Also, to start our walk I would get her in the heel position, then treat, walk 5 steps with treat held by my side close to her but not allowing her to have it until 5 steps, treat, 5 steps, treat and on and on. I am now up to 50 steps, reward. Harley is nearly 6 months old. By using this technique she stopped pulling by 90%, when she does on the odd occasion pull! I stand still until she slackens off the lead. I know hold the treats in my pocket, not in my hand. Good luck and I hope this helps
Re: pulling on the lead, help! The stop and not a step forward while pulling does work - but it takes time. It's best to be realistic about the time it will take, then you are more likely to stick with it (rather than give up after 2 days). It can take a month to do one familar walk. Then when you try a new walk, you've got to do it all over again. It does work though. If you have to get from A to B in the meantime, changing the collar and lead - eg to a harness - works. Well, it worked for us. Harness = you can misbehave, within reason. Flat collar = you go no-where if you mis-behave. Charlie is not so much a puller as a jump-up-and-down-and-go-crazy-er. I use the same principle. You don't get anywhere for jumping up and down. It does work, but takes time.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! [quote author=Tj link=topic=4175.msg49502#msg49502 date=1390516728] Have a look at www.gencon-allin1.co.uk [/quote] But also be aware some dogs absolutely hate face harnesses - and the advantages of not being dependent on a device to make your dog behave while on lead.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! I just want to say - really do stick at it; it pays off. I didn't really pay enough attention to training Poppy to walk to heel when she was little. She never pulled badly, just walked slightly ahead of me, which seemed good enough at the time. But once we started gun dog training this was a real nuisance, and we are STILL trying to iron out the wrinkles in the heel work. So keep at it.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! The gencon range doesn't ride up into the eyes which in most dogs is a huge problem with other brands that can cause the discomfort. Also it doesn't work by pulling up the nose so can have a calming effect. You can also turn the all in one model into a slip lead as well. I find that with a gencon, people relax more with their dogs, don't get as frustrated so allows a good walk and subsequently good training and in turn relaxed heel work training away from the gencon. Some dogs do hate face harnesses however, if conditioned correctly should adapt really well. I have used with with great success with large breeds and aggressive dogs and they can also have a calming effect. [size=8pt](Edited to fix up quote - Oberon)[/size]
Re: pulling on the lead, help! I second the Gencon. I tried all the other types and they are not a patch on Gencon in my opinion. Pleased to say I don't need to use it now; never had to use such a device on my second Lab
Re: pulling on the lead, help! That's interesting. Looking at the Gencon brochure, the "collar" has 2 loops, with a slip action ring (ie a choke action) and is designed to operate across the nose, with the second loop pulled up behind the dogs ears to apply pressure on the ends of the jaw bone. If it is, then I think people should be aware of the implication of this, and treat the claims of a calming effect with an inquiring mind. Pressure behind the ears is very, very, painful for a dog. Even the brochure claims the Gencon is "invasive". I have not seen one though, so appreciate you putting me right on the operation if I've got it wrong. You do not need a head collar to relax and train your dog properly. Lots of dogs hate being pulled around by the head. I appreciate not all, but most dogs I see are trying to get these things off their heads. I'm anti-choke device for dogs that pull. I realise others don't agree. And also appreciate that I haven't used a Gencon so might have misunderstood.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! I'm always for getting people to train them not to pull, but sadly some people do struggle to do this. Be it ability, not understanding fully or not being consistent. Frustration can come into it....we are only human after all. I do a lot of behavioural work and have looked into the effects that pieces of equipment have on a dog and where they apply pressures/pain etc. The gencon really is a great piece of kit and it's the same as anything, if used correctly works, if used incorrectly....not worth trying. The calming effect is quite odd, and I certainly wouldn't have believed it until I saw it. Mainly because I'm used to seeing halti's and gentle leaders being used that pull across a dogs eyes and in my opinion cause the issue of dogs trying to get it off. The gencon doesn't ride up across a dogs eyes and this stops most of the need to remove it. So e dogs still try and remove it because it's alien to them, just the same as a puppy scratches at a collar when it first has one on, because it's alien to them. I used the gencon this week with two clients. Both with very powerful German shepherds that have been to another trainer and have done all the training but have not been able to master their dogs not pulling. Both were using headcollars and they had no effect on the dogs. In fact one owner actually said that they stopped more to adjust the collar than walked. As soon as they saw another dog, they would lunge at them barking and the owners were digging in to prevent them being pulled over. We substituted the headcollars for gencon and immediately the dogs calmed down, relaxed and didn't pull or bark and lunge. The owners were amazed and in literally two or three minutes, the owners had relaxed enough that they were holding the leads with just a finger and thumb and light pressure. Now this for me, means that everyone is calm and now they can all start training, with a view to getting them just onto a collar and lead. Because without calm, there is no learning!
Re: pulling on the lead, help! When I used the Gencon, I saw absolutely no sign of pain in my dog, it is very simple and doesn't ride up into the dog's eyes. As for pain, the wretch caused ME a lot of pain by wrenching my shoulder, which was very painful for months! Hence I used the Gencon.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4175.msg49837#msg49837 date=1390679014] When I used the Gencon, I saw absolutely no sign of pain in my dog, it is very simple and doesn't ride up into the dog's eyes. As for pain, the wretch caused ME a lot of pain by wrenching my shoulder, which was very painful for months! Hence I used the Gencon. [/quote] I understand, and appreciate, you made a decision that seemed to you to be proportionate to the problem you experienced. I do think though that people with young puppies who pull, reading a thread recommending a choke action device, should know that's the case - I hope you think that's reasonable. (Even if it's only me that thinks it's important - as dogs are very good at hiding pain).
Re: pulling on the lead, help! Puppies are easy to teach to walk to heel without pulling. However, my Lab had broken his elbow at 16 weeks and wasn't allowed out for walks until he was nearly 7 months, by which time he was a big, strong dog. As he was confined to a crate for a month and a small room for further month, he as sky high with energy and I was a nervous wreck. I had no opportunity to teach him heel work as he wasn't out of the crate or room long enough, just to go to the loo and straight back in. My second Lab is easy peasy to train. I have just gone and found the Gencon and put it on my just 2 year old Lab who had never seen it before, he accepted it immediately and I tried to "choke" him with it but it doesn't have that action, it crosses underneath the chin in a figure of eight. I think if it had 'choked' him he would have shown some evidence? I do understand your thinking.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4175.msg49852#msg49852 date=1390680596] It crosses underneath the chin in a figure of eight. I think if it had 'choked' him he would have shown some evidence? I do understand your thinking. [/quote] I'm glad you appreciate my point. I don't see anything that would stop the figure of eight tightening in a choke action. But enough, those who are tempted to try one can do their own research.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! It really doesn't - but I agree, enough Don't want to spoil your relaxing weekend and understand how you are missing Charlie. Some days we long to be without them but when it happens we miss them like mad.
Re: pulling on the lead, help! [quote author=Tj link=topic=4175.msg49834#msg49834 date=1390678282] I'm always for getting people to train them not to pull, but sadly some people do struggle to do this. The gencon really is a great piece of kit and it's the same as anything, if used correctly works, if used incorrectly....not worth trying. Now this for me, means that everyone is calm and now they can all start training, with a view to getting them just onto a collar and lead. Because without calm, there is no learning! [/quote] I think that - for me - these are the crucial points. I accept that when used as a training aid, these can be used to help advance a dog to the point where a collar and lead can be used. My big fear is that a number of owners might use them as a substitute for training - and their dog will continue to be walked with a gencon because it seems like a magic, quick fix. Remember Lynne's comment from a while back about a woman who bought a whistle because she had seen Jasper's excellent recall, only to discover that the magic wasn't in the whistle itself??! That's what worries me - the potential that a piece of kit is seen as a solution in itself, not as part of what should be a training process. Clare
Re: pulling on the lead, help! I agree Clare, but I also think some owners are lazy with training their dogs and are just happy to continue with any lead training AID permanently. I do use a harness on Charlie due to his size and mine but I am clicker training him to walk to heel and having good success so then I can ditch the harness and use a flat collar and lead. I see owners all the time where I live just not wanting to learn and help their dogs. I do remember Lynne's comment and I have a neighbour and he saw me use my whistle, a few weeks later told me he had bought a silent whistle, blew it ONCE and his spaniels ignored it, "rubbish whistle didn't work" he said, when I tried to explain all the months and months of training that has gone into training Charlie's recall to whistle he was not interested. You have to want to train your dogs and sadly not everyone wants to x
Re: pulling on the lead, help! [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4175.msg49874#msg49874 date=1390683729] It really doesn't - but I agree, enough Don't want to spoil your relaxing weekend and understand how you are missing Charlie. Some days we long to be without them but when it happens we miss them like mad. [/quote] Not at all, of course you are not spoiling my weekend - we're having a debate about the action of a collar, that's not spoiling my weekend. For those that are interested, the action is described on the website here: http://gencon-allin1.co.uk/
