I need some help! My 11 week old puppy is so overly boisterous and rough with our 13-year old lab, that it is quite distressing. He (the old boy) does nothing to stop her apart from barking and the occasional, not serious growl. Then he cries and whimpers. He has arthritis, so is not quick enough to get away from her! I am not sure, but I think two things are happening. One, she (Poppy) seems to be jealous of my attention to Bones. Secondly, I think perhaps she feels her position in the pack is higher than his... Last night I got so angry and frustrated with her biting him that I shouted at her and shook her by the scruff of the neck. It didnt really stop her though... Oh yes, and this particularly happens in the evenings, when she is also quite rough with me, biting my hands and chewing at my clothes and jumping up at me. She doesnt do this so much with my partner so much! (He is working from home, so spends all day with the dogs, where as I am in the office all day and so just spend mornings and evenings with them). Otherwise I have to say she is lovely, sits and stays on command, comes when called, loves a short game of retrieving, and is clean and dry in the house. The perfect puppy - except for her treatment of the old boy! She is also careful and respectful with other dogs. She is just a very different dog to my previous two. Bones was a very laid back, easy-going puppy, and I am finding Poppy's evening behaviour a bit of a trial! Can I just put her in her crate when she starts getting too boisterous, or will this seem like a punishment and end with her not wanting to go in there any more? Any help, advice or just comments would be gratefully received.
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Hi Karen I feel for you - rusty was my first ever puppy and when they get over boisterous it can be really stressful. Rusty was a morning nightmare sounds like Poppy is the opposite end of the day. I'm sure others will jump in with more experience but here's my tuppence worth. If you remain calm and positive while putting her in her crate to give you and Bones a break it won't feel like punishment. They are very good at picking up emotions so picking her up and plonking her in there and locking the door in anger will feel like punishment. if you spend a few minutes near the crate being calm but not paying her attention she'll soon get the hint and calm down. If she hurts you with her mouthing or jumping yelp really loudly so she learns that she has hurt you. Gradually you can reduce the scale of your reaction. They don't understand shouting per se but I completely understand why you did! We're only human and they can be maddening! If Bones can't correct her in time you'll have to do it for him. When she starts pawing him make a "ah-ah" noise as you pick her up and move her away - you might have to repeat this several zillion times. Ok that might be an exageration. Rusty was absolutely determined to sit on my lap. I remember one night it took 57 times of putting him down before he gave up! It was very hard not to get stroppy so I made a game of counting the reps in my head!) perhaps getting into the routine of some crate time each evening to give you and Bones a break would be helpful. I did this with Rusty too - barney was pretty good at playing with him and keeping in line but even he got tired of it after a while. Rusty has certainly never viewed his crate as a punishment and sometimes yes it was a case of chuck him in and walk away frazzled. Half an hour later when we'd both calmed down we were fine again. I don't know about thinking she's top of the pack, i think puppies are just very needy of attention and will try anything to get it. hope this helps a tiny bit.. Carole x
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Thanks so much for that Carole, it does help to hear someone else's experience, and to know it all worked out well for them! I guess Rusty and Barney get on well now? I will definitely give it a go this evening and put her in her crate for half an hour or so while we are all sitting watching tv or reading. I think too I'll take Bones out for his final evening stroll on his own - I've been letting them out together in the garden last thing, and the last couple of evenings she's been so vile to him, biting and bashing into him (he actually got knocked off his feet trying to avoid her :-[) that he couldnt really have a quiet enough time to do his pee and poo properly - with the result he actually peed in the house last night. I love to play with Poppy when I get home from work (of course!), but perhaps I'll have to reduce this a bit, and make the evening game a calmer affair, so she doesnt get so wound up. The whole situation is a bit like having a good-natured, generally healthy but old grandfather in the house, suddenly confronted with a loud and boisterous toddler who has come to live there! I'm sure it'll all work out in the end, but I really dont want Bones' old age marred by being constantly hassled by the puppy. Also, if she can knock him down already, I really must make sure that behaviour stops now, before she gets any larger! You read such different things - my instincts are to step in and stop the behaviour, as you suggest, but many sites seem to suggest you should just let the dogs sort it out themselves. I dont think that is right, in this situation.
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! good luck Karen - and trust your instincts - you can find anyone to argue the opposite for anything and everything in dog training/behaviour etc. Yes normally dogs will sort it out themselves but poor old Bones clearly needs some support. I like your analogy of grand-dad being tormented by a toddler - any parent would stop that too if the old boy is too frail! I also found using the trust technique has helped enormously - (link below) everyone now comments on how calm Rusty is for his age which I think is a blend of trust technique, training and temperament. He's never given up on his quest to sit on my lap though, but if I tell him bed he will lie down on the bed on the floor but if I fall asleep on the sofa he's been known to sneak up so I wake up with 30kg of Labrador on my chest!! Rusty and Barney get on very well now, even now Rusty will get a telling off sometimes if he pushes his luck but it's all good tempered. Rusty is still quite demanding of attention, I will put use the trust technique to calm him down while I fuss Barney sometimes to stop him barging in and pushing Barney out. I also will walk them separately quite often so they both get individual attention too. I have to say I've found the support on this forum invaluable especially on the "what the hell did I get this puppy for" days ;D here's that link http://trust-technique.com/dap/a/?a=266
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Thank you for that link Carole, I will have a good look at it. And I'll let you know how we are getting on at home. It's odd because I got Bones (real name Bonaparte ) when Billy (lab/spaniel cross) was three, and I had the two dogs together for almost 13 years, with never a cross word or misunderstanding between them, and I sort of expected the same thing would happen with a new puppy. Just shows you, each dog is different with its own unique character - all loveable in their own ways. Loved the story about waking up with a big heavy lab on your lap!!! And yes, I do think this forum might turn out to be a bit of a lifeline at times... Karen x
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Hi Karen, great advice from Carole. I quite agree that dear old Bones (love the name!) needs you to step in. I actually separate pups from older dogs quite a lot. Even the ones that are willing to play. Otherwise young pups can get really overexcited and silly. I think it is good also for pups to have a 'winding down' time in the evening. I know that some people do the opposite and try to wear them out before night time, but I have always found that like kids, a calm time before bed helps for a calm night. Good luck
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Hi Karen , I agree 100% having gone through this myself . When we got Sam , now almost 11 months old , I already had an 8 year old Jack Russell female who was very tollerant but yes, there were those times when Sam would not respect her needs/want of a nap . As I dont use crates , I would say a sharp NO , if he continued I would then put him on his lead and make him sit by me , he soon learned . When the older dog wont fend for himself, its up to us to intervene and teacch the youngster that their behaviour is not appropriate , they soon learn
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Lap? I said chest! Rusty is very smart and worked out that it is easy to be pushed off a lap. However, if you lie against a chest pinning down both arms you get to stay there much longer as the person underneath can't move!!!!
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! [quote author=caroleb link=topic=524.msg2257#msg2257 date=1338452784] Lap? I said chest! Rusty is very smart and worked out that it is easy to be pushed off a lap. However, if you lie against a chest pinning down both arms you get to stay there much longer as the person underneath can't move!!!! [/quote] LOL!!!!!!! ;D ;D
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! OK, so we had a much calmer evening yesterday. Whenever Poppy started to bother Bones, we said 'no' fairly sharply, and distracted her attention to something else. Then at around 8:30, when she started getting over-tired and boisterous, I just calmly put her in her crate. She whined and scratched a bit, for about 3 minutes, and then to my surprise lay down and went to sleep! I, my partner, and Bones had a lovely quiet time together... About an hour later she woke up and needed to go outside, then we had a bit of a cuddle, then everyone went to bed. It was a much improved situation. However, this morning she has been sick with vomiting and diarrhoea, and is a bit quiet (but she is drinking and does not seem to have a temperature). So now I am not sure whether the fact that she was more subdued yesterday evening was due to our actions, or whether she was simply feeling a bit under the weather... It's really like having a baby in the house again!
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Thank you. I hope so too! She's managed to keep some rice down that she had for lunch, but still seems a little subdued, though not unduly so.
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! great news! and although she was poorly your lessons won't have been wasted - some of it will have gone in
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! [quote author=kateincornwall link=topic=524.msg2286#msg2286 date=1338548161] Pleased to hear that chaos has returned [/quote] It certainly has! But we are continuing the quiet time in the crate in the evenings, which seems to be working really well. It's not actually a crate, it's the Crufts Puppy Playpen, which although expensive (even second hand, which is how I bought it, it cost a lot), but it has been worth its weight in gold. We are going out to dinner with some friends tonight, and will be leaving her in the crate for a couple of hours while we are out. I feel like a nervous first time mother, leaving her baby at home!!!!!!!
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Oh tell me about it My two, one Lab and one JRT are both one week off being 11 months old . The first time we left them alone , we were just the same , had that terrible sinking feeling when we unlocked the door but they were sound asleep, neither heard us so not a bark , what good guard dogs :
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! EXACTLY!! Was so sure something terrible would have happened, drove home really fast in a panic - of course they were both curled up fast asleep and barely even noticed when we came in! We had the first walk in torrential rain yesterday - Poppy was not at all happy, and wanted us to carry her.. But we remained firm, and she walked all the way around the block - then came in and promptly peed on her bed! She clearly does not like going out in the rain yet, though I am sure this will change as every labrador I have ever known has had a magical affinity with wet and mud. :
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! Today she rolled in fox poo. Knew that new paddling pool would come in useful...
Re: Puppy torments older dog - help! ew! why DO they they do that! this tip really works - tomato puree rubbed in takes away the smell of the poo that rinsing alone doesn't...
