She's intermittently lame (see other post) and I'm just about to embark on a whole heap of expensive investigations that might end up with her having one or both elbows operated on and I'm afraid I may be putting her through a lot without good enough cause. The possible elbow problem is described as (possibly) genetic. A weakness causing micro-fractures in the pointy bone of the elbow joint that cause her to limp for a bit, then heal up and she's ok again, then open up again etc leading ultimately to arthritis in the joint. I'd be interested to read a bit more on the subject so I'm not coming from a position of complete ignorance when I'm discussing this with the vet, but can't find any on-line links that discuss this particular problem. Any help in this area greatfully received. Pippa - have you come across this?
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David I'd be worried too. We have good vets and I'd sit down with them and discuss all the options, looking at it from both short and long term prognoses before making any decisions. Years ago one of mine smashed her cruciate and I was able to ask the vet, if she was yours what you do? In those days he was able to offer a genuine option not bound by fears of litigation, rest not surgery was the recommendation then, I doubt it would be the same now. Like you I'd want a lot more info before putting my girls through any major surgery, although I'd go with the non-invasive investigations as I think they'd help me with my decision, I'd also want to know if there are any alternatives to surgery (I'm sure you'll have thought of that). If it helps I have a heap of vet books (left over from uni plus continued interest, you may have guessed ;D ). What's the full name of Lady's condition and I'll see what I can find. Hope that helps. Kerryn
Re: Quite worried about my girl I'll have to find out from the vet the name of the condition. He did say but with everything else going on it kind of washed over me. She's got x-rays under light anesthetic on Tuseday next. I'll find out then.
Re: Quite worried about my girl It's a lot to take in all in one lump isn't it? Maybe one thing to think about, I know you and Lady love picking up, but perhaps if she was just a "pet" dog the joints might be under less stress and thus either the more major op could be avoided or long term prognosis may be different? Juno was well on the way to becoming a good field dog, maybe even trailing, when she did the splits on some ice at top speed she was aged just three, it damaged her hip quite badly and I decided that instead of pushing her (or rather letting her push herself to the limit) I would scale back that type of activity and see how it went. As a result we managed to avoid surgery and although she had problems on and off they were managed with rest and painkillers. I'll have a rummage and see what I can find on elbows or micro fractures.
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David, sorry to hear of Lady's troubles. The condition I am aware of that can cause microfractures in the elbow joint is 'Elbow Dysplasia'. Sadly this is quite common in Labradors. You can read more about it on the BVA site . I am afraid that it is not something I have personal experience of, but I do know that many dogs cope very well for many years on nsaids provided their weight is well controlled. Is Lady insured? Vets often assume that investigations will be covered by insurance. If not, it might be worth asking how the results of the investigation will affect the choice of treatment. If it is simply a question of treating the symptoms, you might not want to run up a huge bill, but save your money for nsaids etc.
Re: Quite worried about my girl She is insured, so the bills shouldn't be an issue. Also she's about 1.5 kg over ideal weight at the moment. She's about right at around 27kg (maybe 26kg) - she's very petite for a Lab. I'm cutting back her feed a little at the moment to bring her back down to around the 27 - 27.5kg mark so she's not carrying anything extra. I've also cut back on her exercise while we are getting her assessed, and if I take her on the next shoot we'll just do a spot of picking up which is pretty much a relaxed day as our guns don't seem to be able to hit a barn door whilst sitting on the latch! ;D Thanks for the link to the article, Pippa. I've just read through it and it sounds like that's probably the problem although it only showed up about 4 months ago when I first took her to the vet. It's been very much an intermittent problem since hence the delay in taking her back as she kept getting better. I gave her a dose of nsaid (Metacam) this morning to see if it would relieve the immediate symptoms and she's been bouncing! Ok and many thanks for all that. I feel I can ask more relevant questions now.
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David, Hope everything works out for you both x My in-laws dog has elbow dysplasia both sides and he pretty much self regulates. They keep him slim and give him joint supplements, he does what I'd consider to be quite a lot of exercise for a pet but they manage and if he's stiff one day they just do less. He's about 4 now and has been managing since about 9 months when it first manifested. Everything crossed for you, Barbara
Re: Quite worried about my girl Now, you see, this is the kind of thing I wished to avoid for so many years. It saddens me deeply to see them in any form of discomfort. I whole heartedly hope it all heals in the end and its something fairly simple to deal with, such as rest...Labrina
Re: Quite worried about my girl We thought that Lilly had ED (or was it her knee?) but after seeing the orthopaedic specialist at East Neuk Vets clinic at St Monans (they have a very good rep) she was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia. We had therefore read up a good deal about all these joint conditions. My perception of elbow dysplasia was early surgery was important to prevent more severe problems later. Given though that Lilly didn't in the end have this, we didn't get into the ins and outs of treatment for ED. In spite of pretty severe changes in both Lilly's hips, it doesn't stop her doing anything. She goes off like a whippet after any wildlife she spots (ho-hum) and she has coped really well with a bit of fun agility. She's always up for a bit of fun, a walk, or a chase round the house or garden. All in all, very much a party-girl! We give her a high strength cod-liver oil twice a day and she has 1/2 a Previcox anti-inflammatory tablet with her dinner (both advised by the ortho specialist). Although we have a couple of times tried to stop the Previcox, she gets a bit "grumbly", so we know it helps when she takes it. Our advice is that when we feel she is being more bothered with pain (i.e. the tablets are helping less) that we go back for surgery. I think the best advice is to find a good surgeon - I know that has been the best thing for us - someone with a good reputation that you can trust. You know what its like - sometimes you get different advice from every different person you speak to. Hope everything works out for you and Lady - try not to worry. Jac
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David I'm glad you got some info. Here's some more! ED is a catch all term for many complaints of the elbow joint but fundamentally the treatment is the same, a clean out followed by rest and NSAIDs as required. However if you can find the cause it might help in your decision as to the best treatment, it would also be worth finding out how much, if any, soft tissue (ligament and cartilage) has been affected as this will affect long term prognosis and thus treatment. Occasionally some transplantation is possible to help with recovery, this is usually for cartilage degradation. With careful management most ED conditions are not too limiting. Cod liver oil is recommended as an arthritis protectant as it has been proven to delay the onset and also to reduce the effects, however, it's worth noting that use of CLO and NSAIDs should be closely monitored and regular liver function tests are important. For CLO it's the vitamin A content that affects the liver, as I understand it 50% of the human RDA is at the upper limit for dogs over a long term. Glucosamine is good at improving soft tissue function and hyluronic acid is especially good for anything where cartilage has been impacted. Let us know how Lady's x-rays go we've got our paws crossed for you both.
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David , I cant really add to whas already been said , just agree 100 % that you need to be making an informed decision and not just accepting which is obviously what you are doing, good for you . I had a Jack Russell some years ago who had double hip dysplacia, down in his case to bad breeding , we took him on knowing that he had problems . He wasnt insured because it was classed as a birth defect so the cost of having ops on both hips would have been huge and more importantly , two hip replacements or femeral head removal ops and subsequent recovery would have been devastating to a very timid little dog and our Vet agreed so he was put onto NSAID`s , he lived quite happily for many years . OK, the odd little bunny hop and exercise had to be limited, no jumping etc. but he was mainly pain free and very happy , have a really good chat with your Vet and I wish you all the luck in the world for a special girl . Just seen Kerrys reply and agree, glucosomine with chondroitin is brilliant stuff and can really help !
Re: Quite worried about my girl What a worry for you David. Poor Lady - fingers crossed it doesn't require surgery.
Re: Quite worried about my girl David, everything crossed here that all works out for your very special Lady. Helen x
Re: Quite worried about my girl She's going in for her x-rays tomorrow at 09:30 . Fingers crossed nothing long term or serious.
Re: Quite worried about my girl Just realised I posted info on the wrong post and it should have gone here.
Re: Quite worried about my girl Hi David I've been thinking about you both on and off all day. I'm glad it went OK and that the news is alright, not brilliant but not disastrous either. Keep your chin up, I'm sure you'll both be fine. Kerryn
