A bit confused and puzzled and in need of advice and reassurance and please bare with the long post . So we have had our rescue lab Jake for about 9 months now and he is about 2yrs old and has no history , Now Jake suffers from separation anxiety so after trying everything the one thing that works for use when we leave him is to give him raw meaty bones to occupy him when were out . He currently gets a mixture of beef spine , beef flank bone and lamb bones all of which are quite meaty , I am concerned that he maybe getting to much in terms of over feeding and calcium intake , His diet also consists of about 60grams of kibble on an evening or a chicken carcass or wings and vegetables or lambs hearts . Jake appears healthy and is well exercised about 30 miles a week off lead exercise across fields , But my wife and i are thinking he maybe a bit overweight so he is off to vets tonight to see the nurse to be weighed and chat about his diet , Not sure how that might go . MY biggest concern is getting the right proportions in his diet , Does everyone have 2 fasting days a week which we currently dont . Jake is our 3rd rescue in almost 14 years so consider ourselves to be expirenced owners just a bit lost on raw feeding despite reading various articles . Thanks in advance Mike
Re: Raw Feeding The fasting was mentioned in a feeding guide produced by Dr Tom Lonsdale from a link in a post by Pippa , Forgot to mention he also gets homemade fresh fruit smoothies 2-3 times a week and a can of pilchards per week .
Re: Raw Feeding Remember that a balanced raw diet should be 80% meat, 10% bones and 10% organs (5% liver and 5% other organs). You are currently feeding too much bone and no organs. I don't fast my dog either.
Re: Raw Feeding [quote author=Mike link=topic=6967.msg94863#msg94863 date=1405344007]So we have had our rescue lab Jake for about 9 months now and he is about 2yrs old and has no history , Now Jake suffers from separation anxiety so after trying everything the one thing that works for use when we leave him is to give him raw meaty bones to occupy him when were out . [/quote] You must supervise your dog while they are eating bones, it is dangerous to leave them unsupervised when eating bones. I do not fast as there is no need to. And as the others have said he needs less bone in his diet and more offal and meat, heart is a muscle meat and considered by most not to be offal meat, offal meat includes things such as livers and kidneys
Re: Raw Feeding I don't know if this helps but we have been looking at this range of raw feed, and were thinking of supplementing with our own raw feed that we can use here. Not sure if we are going to go down this route just yet, but it did look interesting. http://www.nutriment.co/puppy/ There is also some advice on how much to feed your dog based on percentage body weight. The company have a 5 star review in the all about dog food site. Just something we are also looking into at the moment. The all about dogs review site also works out how much it will cost to feed your dog based on weight. I was surprised how cheap it works out compared to the current brand I use.
Re: Raw Feeding Thanks everyone for the replies very grateful for the input i realise we are in a difficult situation with Jakes separation anxiety , So need a quick rethink would hate for anything to happen to Jake at all . Berna thanks for the info on the ratio of feeding raw , We are on a budget as a lot of people are if we had alternatives for Jakes care it would be great , We need to consider our next step very carefully . Thanks & Best Regards Mike & Jake
Re: Raw Feeding Hi Mike, have you considered filling and freezing Kongs to keep your dog happy whilst you are out?
Re: Raw Feeding Hi Pippa we have not tried Kongs but have filled other shop bought bones and filled them with mashed bread and other ingredients such as mince . Jake absolutely loves raw meat the bones we have been feeding were frozen so this also ensured they lasted that but longer with the meat been frozen . So ideally need to fill something with maybe finely chopped meat then put in freezer and hopefully this will last we tried so many recommended things over the months but he either devoured them quickly or became bored as he could not get it all out and gave up . It has been a long struggle to manage his Anxiety we do play the radio loudly in another room whilst he is shut in the kitchen so he assumes we are in the house and he is occupied with his bone . Any further help or advice would be gratefully appreciated my wife is off work for 2 days now so we have some time to trail different options and record Jakes behaviour . Thanks Mike
Re: Raw Feeding We don't do fast days. For a cheap frozen kong filling try mashed potato, sweet potato or pumpkin. Any mashed veg really - broccoli, carrot... I'd ditch the fruit smoothies. They are probably just adding kilojoules. Organ meats can be cheap, like beef liver. Don't cut it up - feed on one piece so he has to slice through it himself. I don't supervise any of my dog's meals. If he gets a meaty bone he and it get put outside till it's gone (usually about 5 mins). But my dog does not get any 'recreational' bones (like mammal leg bones) that last a long time or that pose a risk to teeth. Freezing the meaty bones is a really good idea though and will make them last longer without being hard on teeth
Re: Raw Feeding Thanks for your reply Rachael , I am thinking veg and a small amount of mince meat in a kong are possibly the way to go , Jake is real power chewer and their is a lot of mixed reviews with the kong Extreme so he may need 2-3 . If it was not for his separation anxiety we would not have such an issue although he is so much better than he was for instance if we go shopping we have to take Jake with us but now when we return he is generally very chilled on our return or laid down . We can leave him in the garden and go talk to the neighbours 2 doors down were he can see and hear us and he is fine and chilled on our return . We just need to give him plenty to occupy him otherwise were afraid that if he chews through the kongs and has nothing left before we return he will just go mad . The bones will now have to be supervised feed only and will have to try different frozen options . Thanks Mike
Re: Raw Feeding [quote author=Mike link=topic=6967.msg94906#msg94906 date=1405360758] Berna thanks for the info on the ratio of feeding raw , We are on a budget as a lot of people are if we had alternatives for Jakes care it would be great , We need to consider our next step very carefully . [/quote] In all honesty, feeding your dog raw meat, bones and organs doesn't have to be expensive. My dog is 28 kg and I spend around 50 euros a month (veggies included). Good kibble is more expensive. If you can buy in bulk, it's even cheaper. Beef heart is a great source of muscle meat, and it's cheap. When it comes to feeding dogs, expensive isn't necessarily better.
Re: Raw Feeding Hi Mike, it's worth making friends if possible with your local butcher and fishmonger, so you can get cheap off cuts of meat and fish. I also buy a lot of food (meat, fish etc) that is on sale at our local supermarket as it is almost out of date, which I then freeze in meal-size portions for Poppy. It works for us and is a lot cheaper than good quality kibble. I do have a second freezer for this, but I bought that second hand for 20 pounds.
Re: Raw Feeding This is a very useful thread, I must admit my initial thoughts were what a faff, and must be really expensive, and admittedly is it really worth it? Now I think it just takes a bit of planning and sourcing good meat, we also have a second freezer used for all our meat. The idea of just mashed veggies in a kong and freezing is so simple and cheap too!
Re: Raw Feeding [quote author=Mike link=topic=6967.msg94982#msg94982 date=1405404867] Jake is real power chewer and their is a lot of mixed reviews with the kong Extreme so he may need 2-3 . [/quote] My boy is a big chewer - much better lately, actually, now I come to think of it. hurrah! Maybe he is growing up at last! ;D ;D ;D He doesn't have separation anxiety though. Just would chew his way through a room if he got bored. To be fair to him, he was also on restricted exercise for a long time which didn't help matters (made him even more bored). The trick with him was to leave enough kongs so he chewed himself to sleep. "Konged out". The extreme kongs are good, but I didn't need them, as he just moves onto the next full kong. For months, he didn't see his bowl. All food was carefully hoarded and used in kongs and I got extremely inventive at creating tasty, low cal kongs. When I say loads of kongs, I mean loads. Not just one or two....this was my evening chore in preparation for 4 hours at work.... photo (8) by JulieTandCharlie, on Flickr
Re: Raw Feeding Do you give him more than one at a time Julie? We have a chewer extraordinare too, 6.30am this morning full of beans, now down one cushion, corner of skirting...all before his 6.30am walk...oh and my favourite lead he chewed through too, got it out and turned my back for an instant...
Re: Raw Feeding I used to, yes - he was a chewer from day one. Not so much now (I hadn't really "clocked" it but he has been so much better recently, plus I've been on holiday so haven't been leaving him). Funny how thing just get better and you don't really notice! It was a tip in my puppy book for very chewy puppies - get them addicted to kongs. Charlie certainly is addicted to kongs. I started with really, really tasty kongs not frozen and slowly moved to much lower calories frozen kongs. If I've managed to freeze enough low cal kongs (I don't do veggies so much, as I'm not keen on the idea of a huge volume of veg in his tummy), I easily dump 10 in his pen before I left him 4 hours. I use the smaller kongs, as 2 small kongs last much longer than a medium one I find and some can be filled with really simple things like the water saved from a tin of tuna.
Re: Raw Feeding Can someone please tell me how to fill and freeze a kong.... it just falls out of the other end! I give it to him straight away, it slides out, he eats it and then doesn't bother with chewing the kong so I have to wash it out again! I also give meaty bones frozen, they last longer. Although I don't give them when I'm not around. I don't stand over him, but I am about to keep an eye on him.
Re: Raw Feeding ;D ;D ;D You need to either get whatever you are stuffing it with to a "squishable" but not runny consistency, or block up the hole in the end. If I'm using liquid, I use huge bulldog clips to hold the end closed while they freeze. But most things - like soaked kibble, bits of mashed cooked veg, and so on won't run out. If your dog isn't interested at first, fill them with very tasty things - bits of chicken and kibble. Sure, if they are not frozen, he'll eat them quickly. But...get him hooked on kongs being the best thing ever, and you'll soon be able to fool him with a bit of low cal flavoured water or soaked kibble. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3103.msg32841#msg32841 date=1383142125] For the ultimate kong, I think you need a bit of structure. Gravy bones are ideal because you can ram them into something soft (a bit of chicken) and then wedge them under the rim. Then fill the gaps with something. My current tatic is: Chicken in the bottom, a single layer of dry kibble rammed into the chicken with the end of a wooden spoon. Bit more chicken. 3 or 4 gravy bone biscuits shoved into this layer and tucked under the rim, mashed up kibble mixed with chicken (more kibble than chicken) fills the middle between the gravy bones, and tiny bit more chicken and a hard sea biscuit is then pressed down into the top until the kong is as packed as a tube train in rush hour. Freeze for 30 minutes min. 3 of these are half his daily food allowance. If short of stuff, I soak kibble, mash in sardines, pack kongs with resulting sludge and freeze. [/quote]
Re: Raw Feeding Thanks Julie, I've been tearing my hair out with this - I bought 5 kongs when he first arrived (and they aren't cheap!) and he hasn't touched them. I'll get onto this tonight. As you may know from previous posts, he also has separation anxiety so perhaps if I concentrate on getting him hooked on them it'll be good for when I have to leave him.
