I really thought we'd pretty much got recall sorted, but this weekend Molly has been a little so-and-so! The worst one was at the beach this morning (which is less than 2 minutes drive from our house). We go there most days but today she suddenly took it into her head to run up the sloping cliff face. I took this photo before she did her disappearing act. It doesn't look so bad in the photo but there are signs warning about dangers of further rock fall. She completely ignored my whistle and calls and bombed along the top of the cliff to where it's a sheer cliff face. I stopped calling then, feeling really frightened, and started to walk away. Thankfully she then turned around and galloped back along, down the sloping bit and to me. I've had a couple of other ignored recalls too this weekend. Not sure what to do. When she was about 6 - 7 months she had a bad spell and I bought and followed the Total Recall training programme and since about 10 months of age have felt pretty confident about her recall - she's nearly 14 months. Do I need to go back and start again? The thought of that fills me with despair - I suppose I'd have to have a new signal if I did. Each time it happened it seemed to be something she'd smelt - her nose went up and she took off at speed with determination. If she was male I would imagine it was a bitch in season. : Help please!
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Harley went through this at about 12 months old, but only with my hubby and daughter, not me. She apparently went completely deaf and ignored them, ran off, once into a road I have since gone out with them and helped them proof their recall. We changed her recall and it now works really well Persistence is the key I think. Good luck x
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Would you mind telling me a bit more about what you did? When you proofed it did your husband and daughter have Harley on a long line? And did you just change the pattern of whistle pips or were you using a word? Do you think I should reward Molly whenever she returns or only if she comes as soon as she is called?
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Omg, how scary! What a little minx, well done on keeping calm and turning round. Hope it was just a blip Lou x
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. I started using a whistle when Harley was 10 months and she recalled well with 2 pips. My daughter and hubby use their mouths to whistle. My daughter doesn't whistle well so I got her using my whistle, hubby has changed to 2 whistles too. I would use my whistle, then the second time I would get them to do it and reward her with a tennis ball being thrown. My daughter started by calling her name and held the tennis ball up, then as she was coming back, 2 pips on the whistle. She done this a few times and it has stuck. Same with hubby. If Harley ever ignores me (which is rare) I change direction and say 'this way' then 'bye'. She soon comes running
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Thanks for a quick reply. You've reminded me of the about-turn walk which was so useful when Molly was younger. I've not done it for ages, so I'll get back to that tomorrow. I've been spending a lot of time on sit-stay and not running in for retrieves, so perhaps Molly's getting bored and needs a break from that for a while. Perhaps I'll get a new toy as a reward too as she's not very food motivated. Feel better with a plan!
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. I have a theory about pet dog recalls...(try not to roll eyes, it's not too mad... ;D ;D ;D). If we often call them back from things they want to do, a recall becomes quite a negative thing. Of course it depends on the dog, but a bit of chicken isn't a great reward for my boy compared to running round with his mates. And I want him to be able to play, of course. The trick for me has been not to just work on recall, although of course I do a lot of work on it, but to work on my dog paying attention to me. For 2.5 months I've worked on this now - C&T for attention, playing super exciting games - all the time - and only doing "working walks" and training sessions instead of walks, where my attention is on my dog the whole time. I'm starting to have a dog that looks at me and asks "what are we doing now?". He watches me, even if he is off a little way having a sniff/pee/poo he has an ear out in case I'm going to do something exciting. This means he wants to hear his recall. It has meant going out with so many toys I felt like a walking pet shop at times! But it worked... Sure, if he is having a mad, mad hoolie with another young dog, I struggle still, but that's just about the only problem. Anyway, hope some of that might contribute some ides.
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Thanks Julie. Thinking about it, the times Molly has run off this weekend have been when I was just ambling along and not really interacting with her. So a more exciting me will go into production from today.
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Scary moment for you with Molly x Julie, the C&T for attention sounds really useful and I think I could start this indoors with Charlie playing games which he is more than happy to do but not sure how it would work on a walk as he doesn't play :-\ So you literally C&T everytime he looks at you if you throw a ball etc.? x
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. We started this with Charlie just as he returned to off lead exercise and was crazy to run and get to other dogs in particular. He didn't used to play on walks - the only thing he would do was fetch. But my trainer banned fetch for a while because Charlie was getting obsessed. Plus he wouldn't always bring things back, so flinging balls around on walks made things worse. Fetch throws fun away from you, particularly with a dog that wants to keep balls for himself, and I needed Charlie to have fun with me. For example, I tried to interest him in tug, but no. He was only interested if I would throw the thing. I went back, moaning, to the gundog trainer - and she demonstrated she could get Charlie interested and excited in tug. Turns out, I didn't really have my heart in playing with my dog, I was far too cold and scientific about it, inventing a lot of rules about how Charlie had to behave - I had to learn to play! Our games are tug, whipit, catch, hide and seek, find it and of course fetch (but not so many, these are mainly just 2 or 3 formal retrieves these days). On the C&T I didn't do this in the house (I think Angela did though). I set off on a walk, and did nothing else but reward voluntary attention. The attention had to be voluntary, I was training "attention on me" not a response to a cue. I did about 20 of these walks before I saw a real, sustained difference. Now I don't reward all attention with food, but I always "respond" to him - good boy, sometimes start a game etc. I'll see whether I can get a vid tonight.
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. [quote author=Joy link=topic=8368.msg118400#msg118400 date=1413787229] Thanks Julie. Thinking about it, the times Molly has run off this weekend have been when I was just ambling along and not really interacting with her. So a more exciting me will go into production from today. [/quote] Similar here, if my mind wanders off, or another walker stops to exchange pleasantries, the dogs quickly disengage and wander off...then it is more difficult to get them back in the frame of mind I need. Reflecting back on JulieT's post, this is where some sort of structure on a walk I feel is important and the dog being focussed, waiting/looking for the next command. I also find the release cue really helpful, as I can use to release to something nice....like a dog I know they love to play with coupled with a sensible owner. This does lead onto those dog owners who want to TALK! I love my quiet walks with the dogs, and the last thing I want is to engage in conversation..must make me look rather unsociable..... :
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. I've spent the last hour re-reading the last section of Total Recall and feel more confident now that I can regain the ground I've lost. Other dogs aren't really a problem - Molly loves to play but isn't over the top, so if the other owner's happy then I think it's fun for her to have a hoolie. It's the hunting instinct that I need to counteract. So today I'm going to follow Julie's idea of rewarding for attention on me, sometimes with food and sometimes with a game of tug or being allowed to chase a toy, plus the about-turn walk and several short periods on lead, to give me a break. Think I'll stop practising steadiness on retrieving for a few days, as I have to be so unexciting for that to work.
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. That sounds good, Joy. I think if you have even an averagely active young labrador, just "going for a walk" if that means the dog is left to his/her own devices for periods, is quite a challenge in terms of maintaining a good recall.
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. This is so important. Managing the dog's time outdoors is just as important as training a great response to the whistle. Making yourself more interesting is the key. With some dogs you can relax this as they get older, others, especially some working bred dogs, need a lot of interaction from their owners right up to old age. Good luck with your training Joy - it sounds as though you are on the right track
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. As an owner one quite hunt driver working line Labrador and one very very hunt driven working line Labrador, I can second the need for pretty much constant interaction on walks. Brodick, my very hunt driven boy, now spends around an hour of an hour and three quarters walk directly interacting with me, running after balls and bringing them back, doing gundoggy dummy work, playing catch, or find the kibble, about fifteen minutes lead walking to and from their off lead area, about ten minutes walking to heel in the off lead area where I know the Pheasants are about (with my hand about one centimetere from his collar just in case!) and a measly twenty minutes or so 'free running' as in doing dog stuff, loping about sniffing, digging, rolling in fox poo if they can get away with it, marking and eating grass, we only do that in areas where I know there shouldn't be much going on in terms of hunting potential, but still has to be very heavily monitored as there is a good chance it can turn into free hunting unless I have a really good eye on him - luckily I know by his tail if he is about to go into free hunting mode! There will still be the odd Pheasant Hunt though, as I often miss the signs.... On a beach he is mostly fine, so gets to just charge about in the water without as much management. Brods is so hunt driven I can see this going on for many a year, actually I quite enjoy it though! Cuilli needs much less management, but basically wants to interact all the time anyway, so she's happy to do the same. If we are going for a walk with friends then it will usually be a lead walk, as I'm far too busy to blether to anyone with all this going on ;D
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. Yup, even my show line choccie gets only 20 minutes "free run" and even that includes rewards for attention on me... He doesn't leg it to hunt, but has unlimited imagination in terms of getting into mischief in all other ways...
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. I have been lucky with Tatze. Hiding from her often when she was a pup means she now keeps a close eye on me whatever I am doing. Gypsy is beginning to do the same
Re: Recall vanished this weekend. I'm sure you worked very hard with Tatze, but I have to say I didn't put nearly as much effort into my 2 previous dogs as I have with Molly and yet they had great recall - so I think I had my share of luck with them! My dog-before-last was a cocker spaniel (not working line) and she was exceptional - I attended no classes, used no food rewards and put in minimal training time and yet she always recalled and also knew 'wait' which meant 'stop where you are' and this saved her life on one occasion when my parents were looking after her. (They opened the car door without putting her on the lead, being used to their own slow mover of a dog, and she leapt out onto a main road. Apparently Mum shouted, 'wait' and Jessie stopped instantly.) I asked my OH if he thought I was remembering the past through rose-tinted specs, but he said, 'No, Jessie was always good.' Molly is half Chesapeake Bay Retriever and a few people have commented that they're not the easiest to train. Never mind, I love her and at least being almost retired I've got plenty of time to sort out training issues - and she is nice-natured.
