Both Sam and Molly are coming up to 2, on 13th and 15th April respectively. We've had Molly (by choice) since she was 12 weeks old. Sam (lab/spaniel cross) we have acquired from family members who found they couldn't cope and it was either he came with us or went into rescue. This would have been just around Christmas time and it seemed an awful prospect seeing as we knew him, he was a dear little guy and Molly already loved him. Right, fast forward around 4 months and I'm a bit concerned about some behaviour. They have always played scrabbling about, jumping on each other, roaring around like cracker dogs and bitey face. There has been the occasional yelp as someone overdoes it but in the main OK. However, in the past few days it has become a bit more aggressive and a lot more yelps. This long rambling post is leading up to the question of how long these 'play fighting' sessions will go on for, or, at what age do they grow out of this. Our previous dogs have never indulged in this and I'm wondering if I should just let it go or intervene. If you've read this far - well done
They could be experiencing litter mate syndrome. Despite the name, it's not restricted to litter mates, but can affect any dogs of similar age who spend a lot of time together. I would start separating them the majority of the time and not allowing this behaviour to be rehearsed. Lots of reinforcement for calmness and just don't let them play like this. LMS is rather anecdotal, but scary enough to take extreme care with - there are many stories where aggression towards one another becomes so much of a problem and so violent that the only resolution is rehoming one of the dogs. Good luck.
Thank you snowbunny. I do hope it doesn't come to that. I will certainly start to separate them. LMS - ?
Litter Mate Syndrome. The advice is to have them apart more than they are together, certainly walk them separately and have them sleep apart. It's tough having two the same age when they're young, and I was constantly worried that every squeal indicated the onset of real aggression between the two of them. I don't know if I was lucky, or if it was because of the work I put in that everything turned out OK, or maybe it's all a pile of baloney. There are reams of anecdotes on both sides of the litter mate divide. Whether or not the behaviour has anything to do with LMS, having some time apart certainly won't hurt them and will, in fact, be beneficial. It's hard work for sure, but I know you're committed to making it work. Good luck
I don't think they ever grow out of playing bitey face, certainly my nearly 9yr old shows no sign of stopping. My two have a 7yr age gap but can still occasionally go OTT, I think adolescent pup is trying his luck. I am quick to intervene if things start getting out of hand, usually a stern 'Enough!' will stop them. I'll put them both in a sit/stay until they calm down and relax. Personally I would consistently step in and stop the play as soon as you see signs of it going OTT or you start to feel uncomfortable with it... and certainly don't be afraid to separate them until calm is restored.
I'm assuming either one or both are spayed/neutered? If not hormones could also be amping them up. I agree with enforcing breaks, separating them, and encouraging calmness.
Thanks for your replies. I have started to intervene mandyb. Perhaps foolishly I let it go on too long before I noticed the yelps were escalating. We have always had 2 dogs in the past but there has always been an age gap similar to your 2 and have never had this situation with any of them. There was the occasional burst of crackerdog (zoomies) but never this wrestling. Yes TheresaM, both are neutered, otherwise I would have suspected hormones too.
Bitey face is a friendly, happy type of play with mouths wide open, ‘tho it can sound savage! In this video the older dog clearly signals when play is over (picking up a bone). If there is any pain involved (one dog squeaks or squeals) then I would stop play immediately. I have a cue for this - ‘enough’ which I train initially with very tasty, smelly tripe. Happy bitey play - -
Thank you Boogie, that is a very interesting video. It looks like bitey face with manners though compared to the totally manic whirling dervish stuff Sam and Molly do. I didn't hear a single teeth gnash either. I shall certainly stop them from now on once it starts getting ott.
You have two young ones - it makes a big difference. Tatze has taught Keir his manners. When we got our first pup, Gypsy, Tatze was only 15 months old. We needed a room divider as play soon became too much. The same when we had Mollie and Keir, the room divider went back up sharpish! Play sessions kept short and manageable
It is better to not let them play as play can so suddenly turn to real fighting when the excitement escalates. Let them play with you rather than each other. I have had years of two and even three dogs together and never had a problem.
Thanks for your replies. I've been foolish really - should have known better, having also been a 2 dog owner for years, but I really didn't expect this
Oh gosh no, don't be so hard on yourself, you did a lovely thing by taking on another dog, and you are recognising some recent signs that you need to de-escalate the play, that's all - it sounds like you've acted promptly before one of them gets hurt. I'm sure in another few months (because, actually, you haven't had Sam that long, really) they will be getting along well and become good friends.
We have three labs currently, and until recently four (including a foster) . They all play really well together, sometimes quite ferociously! But they all self-calm and recognise subtle time-out signals from the other dog. Whilst play fighting is normal mostly, within play you should see evidence of "self-regulating" behaviour, this happens when permission to play is initiated, play bow for example along with more subtle signals. Equally, dogs will take natural breaks, pause..shake their body or just break off for a sniff. Sometimes just lay quietly parallel to each other for a moment before one rolls over, and suddenly off they go again! It sounds like this is not happening, you tend to get a gut feeling that dogs aren't quite playing fair, or are just too aroused to understand it's time to call it a day. And no you haven't been foolish! In fact quite perceptive in picking up that play might be a tad OTT .
You're all very kind and a damn sight wiser than me. You are quite right about the 'enough' signals Beanwood. It's actually Molly who doesn't seem to pick up when Sam is clearly (to us) telling her he's had enough. I think its then that things start to get snappy and a bit vicious, and Sam causes Molly to yelp, yet she still won't leave him alone. She seems to be lacking that instinct - odd really Lots to work on - and thanks for all your wise words, I certainly feel less discouraged now.
Not really, Monty struggles to pick up on inital signals that some dogs don't want to play with him - for the first few seconds of meeting he thinks every dog is going to be his best friend - he does then pick up on their body langauge, but he's pretty slow on the uptake. I'm sure one day it's going to turn out badly for him.
