I keep reading about a second fear imprint period from around 8-14 months of age, and especially so in male Labs. Is this hokum?
Re: Second fear imprint period? I have not read anything that makes much sense on the subject, if anyone has any references I'd be interested. I have seen a lot of vaugue references to it but nothing compelling. I have read one article that labelled the adolescent period (4 - 14 months) as "the second fear period" - but there seems nothing particularly significant about this. It's the period where you are glad if you worked hard on early socialisation and you have to keep up exposure to new experiences and socialisation to see your pup safely through to adulthood.
Re: Second fear imprint period? I never knew anything about this when raising Penny but since then I have discovered it and I think she did actually go through it. Unfortunately for us I think this also coincided with her season so being shut up in the house for three weeks at this time really didn't help matters at all! Socialisation during this period is equally important for male and female dogs I think. So many people concentrate on the early puppy socialising that when the dog hits adolescence and the second fear phase sets in they neglect the socialising and wonder why their dogs behaviour has changed. Exposure to new and unusual things is critical in the first 18 months I think, not just the first couple of months.
Re: Second fear imprint period? [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=7859.msg110233#msg110233 date=1410939998] Exposure to new and unusual things is critical in the first 18 months I think, not just the first couple of months. [/quote] This seems very likely, I think, and seems very well argued in quite a few books and the source seems to be arguments by Ian Dunbar (there might be more, of course, that I'm just unaware of). But the notion that there is a short period of 3 weeks or so (I've seen this mentioned too but not by a reputable source), at some point in adolescence, where if your dog is not socialised the fallout is significant, is the thing that seems doubtful to me. And if it's a "fear period" actually removing the sources of fearful events for a short period would not have been harmful? If it's true though, it's very well worth knowing about - where did you find out about this, Lauren? It would be interesting to explore this if possible.
Re: Second fear imprint period? I would be very interested to learn more about this if you find some good sources or come across reliable info. I have been googling but have not found much. I have been wondering with my 11 month old who is responding to some situations now as if he has never been in them before. I am not sure if he is frightened but he will now bark and sometimes growl at things that he has previously never been bothered with and I have thought that perhaps it´s a developmental stage possibly akin to a second fear period. He is also freaking out recently when around other dogs in a structured setting that results in whining, so obedience training classes that we started recently are rather shameful since the other pups are so calm : He is fine when he get´s to perform though so maybe he´s just bored to death waiting his turn. He has been in puppy training classes, a number of conformation shows and meets other dogs daily for play so this style of coping is new. So again I wonder if it´s a developmental stage and how to deal. Interesting.
Re: Second fear imprint period? In 1953 Dr John Paul Scott and Dr David Fuller were apparently the first scientists to document the critical development period of dogs. If you google that there is a book on amazon. Genetics and social behaviour of the dog. If you google Ellen Dodge critical periods in canine development a few links come up. Not sure who she is but I think her work is based on Scott and Fuller. Not sure how reliable these sources are but my dogs experienced their veterinary ordeal during what is called the first and second fear period or second fear imprint or second fear phase. Whatever it's called they have been scared of people since then and that is what started their fear it happened in front of me. They altered from the usually friendly greeting lab pups to barking monsters. :-\
Re: Second fear imprint period? [quote author=Diselmommy link=topic=7859.msg110311#msg110311 date=1410958891] I would be very interested to learn more about this if you find some good sources or come across reliable info. I have been googling but have not found much. I have been wondering with my 11 month old who is responding to some situations now as if he has never been in them before. I am not sure if he is frightened but he will now bark and sometimes growl at things that he has previously never been bothered with and I have thought that perhaps it´s a developmental stage possibly akin to a second fear period. He is also freaking out recently when around other dogs in a structured setting that results in whining, so obedience training classes that we started recently are rather shameful since the other pups are so calm : He is fine when he get´s to perform though so maybe he´s just bored to death waiting his turn. He has been in puppy training classes, a number of conformation shows and meets other dogs daily for play so this style of coping is new. So again I wonder if it´s a developmental stage and how to deal. Interesting. [/quote] i am seeing much the same thing with my 10-month-old... and that's what got me searching in the first place. i found several websites that allude to it, of course, along these lines (from http://alexadry.hubpages.com/hub/Dog-Behavior-Understanding-Fear-Periods-in-Dogs Second Fear Period: 6 to 14 Months While the 8 to 12 week puppy fear period is in some cases hardly noticed by puppy owners, the second fear period appears to have a much bigger impact. Rover has grown now and if he is a large breed he may even weigh 100 pounds or more! This fear period is believed to be tied to the dog's sexual maturity and growth spurts. This means that in large breeds it may develop later compared to a smaller dog. Often, this stage is also known as "teenage flakiness" according Ellen Dodge in her article "Critical Periods in Canine Development" published in the Weimaraner Magazine. October. 1989. In the wild, dogs at this age are allowed to go on hunts with the rest of the pack. At this stage, it is important for them to learn to stick with the pack for safety, but they also need to learn about fear since they need fear for survival purposes.The message to the puppy is to run away if something unfamiliar approaches them, explain Wendy and Jack Volhard in the book Dog Training for Dummies. Reactivity levels rise during this stage causing the dog to act defensively, become protective and more territorial. Owners often report the fear seems to pop out of no where. Dogs appear fearful of novel stimuli or stimuli met before but that did not trigger significant reactions. As in the first fear period, it is best to avoid traumatic experiences during this time such as shipping dogs on a plane and any other overwhelming experience. Because at this stage the owner may be dealing with a dog barking and lunging and pulling on the leash, this fear period has a bigger impact, causing the owner to worry about the dog's behavior. How to Make Things Better: Continue socializing as much as possible but without exposing your dog to overwhelming situations Create positive associations through counter-conditioning Build confidence through training and confidence building sports and exercises Avoid traumatic experiences during this delicate phase. it all seems to fit so much to a "T," i can't help but wonder.... humm.
Re: Second fear imprint period? Yes it does seem to fit, I agree. Thanks for posting the info. Its pretty general in terms of how to make it better..but I guess if we reward good behavior and ignore what is not desirable in the most basic sense treating each situation as unique we will get through this It´s a little overwhelming though when so many issues arise at the same time and we are still working on things like the leash. Good luck with your boy
Re: Second fear imprint period? [quote author=Diselmommy link=topic=7859.msg110611#msg110611 date=1411046452] Yes it does seem to fit, I agree. Thanks for posting the info. Its pretty general in terms of how to make it better..but I guess if we reward good behavior and ignore what is not desirable in the most basic sense treating each situation as unique we will get through this It´s a little overwhelming though when so many issues arise at the same time and we are still working on things like the leash. Good luck with your boy [/quote] thanks, gudny it's just challenging because one cannot always predict an "event" - if i'm somewhere with him and a noisy truck suddenly backfires right by us, how on earth am i to avoid that? however, i think it's primarily important to continue to socialize him, with plenty of good yummies when we go to new places/meet new people, and just barge on through it as carefully and as lovingly as possible. ;D
Re: Second fear imprint period? We are experiencing something asking these lines at the moment. He is an 11 month complete male. He's very well socialised and trained but has recently started to bark sporadically when left home alone and occasionally at night. Also his confidence on approaching other dogs now varies. Hoping it is just a phase...
Re: Second fear imprint period? [quote author=GreenBull link=topic=7859.msg110652#msg110652 date=1411055614] We are experiencing something asking these lines at the moment. He is an 11 month complete male. He's very well socialised and trained but has recently started to bark sporadically when left home alone and occasionally at night. Also his confidence on approaching other dogs now varies. Hoping it is just a phase... [/quote] everything i have read indicates it is... and that one should not force the dog to confront whatever is alarming him, and also not coddle (i.e., "there, there, it's okay baby" with comforting pats)... but to simply go on about one's business as if it is not important (as, indeed, it is not) and give the dog the chance to approach whatever is alarming him. in your case, that might be harder, but perhaps if you spoke calmly to the other dog's owner, or petted the other dog calmly, your dog might see - oh, it's okay!
Re: Second fear imprint period? There was a recent thread on the point of teenagers "desocialising" - and as a result, a few of us discussed an article on "dog star daily". You can find this article if you login (it's free) and search "adolescent changes". This article argues that even if you have done a really great job in the early weeks, there comes a point when the puppy parties stop, the "come meet my pup and bring a friend in fancy dress" parties stop, and the deliberate trips out to "socialise" a pup with new experiences stop - and a routine begins. If new experiences come to a halt, and the routine becomes the same old dog park, the same old walks, the same people, and so on - then a teenage dog can "desocialise" at an alarming rate. So it's really important to keep up meeting new dogs, new people, and having new experiences all through the teenage months. I didn't experience this with Charlie myself - somewhat luckily, I think, since he spent the months between 8 - 14 months mainly in a crate, but others report similar.
