Well sorry folks this will be a long post! We have 2 dogs a Springer now 5 and two years ago a rescue GR approx age now 3yrs. They get on well. Arthur the GR came from local pound, was found living in a barn they think he'd been shut in there for long time, maybe he wasn't any good for breeding, he's the droopy eyes. He wasn't house trained was scared of going outside, spent the first 2 weeks here living behind the sofa and toileting anywhere. Did not know how to play was scared of everything. We called in a behaviourist who guided us on the toilet training. And a few months later he was actually going outside into the garden looking around. He is dead scared of any loud noises and bolts back indoors. We live rural and the dogs do not need to be taken for walks they have the freedom of the farm, so he is not used to lead walking. He is scared of traffic. He has been here almost 2 yrs. We cannot go out together as he chews things up. We have tried going out for short periods and making them slightly longer, but that doesn't work. Neither does filled Kongs. In fact everything I read I have tried. Overnight he was destroyed many things. So we bought a large cage in which we feed him and slowly introduced him to being shut in there. (We should have done this right from the first day) . Eventually we tried overnight, but he actually chewed his way out, injuring his face badly. He had his bed downstairs next to Max our Springer, but..... he wakes in the night several times scratching the carpet like mad. Then rushes upstairs to try and wake us. He does not want to go out. He wakes any time from 4.30-5am every single morning, and one of us has been coming down and napping on the sofa. He then goes back to his bed gives out a huge sigh and sleeps! To us its as if he's done his job to wake us and all is right with the world! We have put a dog bed in our bedroom in the hope he may sleep in there but no. We cannot shut him in a room as he will chew furniture etc. So, we visited our vet a few times, he was assessed by 2 vets as having severe SA, I asked if there is any medication which may help and he is on Selgian since mid August until January, after then if there's no change then it will not work, and so far there's no change. Having discussed options with the vet its decided rehoming would not be fair on him, he suffers enough. And they would be willing, in this case to PTS. Something we have been very near to, we are at the end of our tether. He is a lovely boy, not a bad bone in his body get on well with others dogs, children and visitors alike. What else can we do!! Thanks....a very tired and worn out Di x
Hello there, and a very, very warm welcome. I really feel for you, it does sound like you have put so much love and effort into this, and I can almost 'feel' in your post how tough it's been. You have a very generous heart to try to help Arthur. It's also really difficult though to give you much hard advice over the internet. His issues do sound complex, genuine separation anxiety is a difficult thing to deal with, and no doubt result from past traumas from what you say. So this does sound like one for the professionals who can observe your dog, perhaps over a period of time. Would the behaviourist you mention you saw before be able to help you again at all?
Thank you, it's so good to be able to share this with those who understand. The behaviourist we had before dealt mostly with obedience and house training, he was ex police dog handler. Living right down here we really are limited to behaviourists, although those I have spoken to have not come across such a severe case, and suggest all the usual things which we have tried. I forgot to say he eats poo and anything else nasty he can find outside! On the other hand he's come on so well in the almost 2yrs he's been here, but it seems we have got so far and that's it. We do love him to bits but his behaviour is taking its toll on us and we really are unsure what to do for the best.
I do have a lot of sympathy with that, whenever I type "see a behaviourist" or "see a trainer" I do understand that availability may be limited. I do not have any in-depth experience of really serious SA, rather than just getting a dog to be ok on its own I'm afraid. I do like the work of a very skilled behaviourist, Patricia McConnell, who writes a fair bit online and has some good books. Here are a couple of articles: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/do-dogs-know-how-long-weve-been-gone http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/new-info-about-treatment-for-sa-yes-and-no And one of her books on the subject: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/store/I-ll-Be-Home-Soon.html
Thank you I will have a look. Over the years we always have had rescue dogs, and always have 2 dogs but never ever had one like poor Arthur.
He does sound a challenge, poor boy. What a terrible time he must have had. And you dealing with the fall out. Have you found some techniques worked better than others with him? You've made good progress with a lot by the sounds of it, if he started off living and pooing behind the sofa!
Thanks for the link to the book have had a look and will order from Amazon. But no doubt will sit on the shelf with the other 4 I have who all suggest the same, but its worth a try. Yes its hard to remember how he was when he first came here and we have got so far & seemingly cannot progress further. Cannot really say we have found any techniques that work, only if we nap on the sofa in the early hours will he settle down. Yes it doesn't bare thinking about his past, what happened we shall never know but some human has caused untold damage to this poor chap.
I can't add much to Julie's excellent advice but wanted to add my support for all you've gone through to help this poor boy. Perhaps if you can find the right behavourist, they might be able to help online if you can film some of the issues for them? It might be worth a shot.....
Thank you Barbara. I keep watching Cesar Millan on TV but so far none of the dogs he's been to see have Arthurs problem.
Cesar Millan's methods are very poor imo. Here is a good article - http://www.thelabradorsite.com/does-my-labrador-have-separation-anxiety/
I do agree with Mags, the techniques promoted by Cesar Millan, which rely heavily on intimidation, verbal scoldings, and punishment, are extremely unlikely to help a scared, nervous dog (or any kind of dog).
I don't have a lot of advice for you I am afraid, other than perhaps going right back to basics and treating him like a small puppy - leave him in a room with the door open for 10 seconds, then go back and reward him. If that works ok, do that for several times a day, and next day increase the time to 15 seconds, then 20 seconds, then 30, then a minute and so on. Incrementally working up the time you can leave him alone (or with your other dog). Poor boy - and poor you. It is obvious from your post how much you love him - and you have done so much for him over the last two years.
Sorry - meant to say, perhaps it helps to remember that he isn't doing this to be naughty, but that he is scared to be left alone after his bad start in life...
Thank you. Yes he cannot help himself we realise that. Last night he did settle in his bed in our bedroom but he must have taken himself downstairs as some stage, at 5.10am he was up & down and whining. Then he went suspiciously quiet. I came down 5.50 and he'd bought down one of my Val Dal shoes and had chewed it to bits, despite having toys, Kongs and an old Tshirt I had worn left specifically for him. He was so pleased with himself & wagging his tail. I sat with my cuppa and cried.
Oh dear, this does seem to be something that is getting on top of you - no doubt it's one thing on top of another. It is extremely difficult to comment on something you say is separation anxiety, which if serious is really too difficult to attempt to comment on over the internet. It honestly is best dealt with by a professional. But, just something to think about - a dog leaving you, getting a shoe, and happily chewing it downstairs when he could be closer to you, does not sound like separation anxiety (at least not serious enough so he needs to be in the same room as you). It sounds like a dog who doesn't have a routine, and is amusing himself in the early hours of the morning. You are far from the first person who has lost a shoe to a bored Labrador who has the run of the house (the best solution to that is put your expensive shoes away). What have you tried in terms of crate training, routines, sleeping places and so on? Have you completed a counter conditioning programme to get him comfortable sleeping apart from you? What did you do, exactly?
Oh no Diana! That must have been so frustrating! But I agree with JulieT - pinching a shoe and chewing it is very normal Lab behaviour. Very few can resist shoes when they are unattended! We have high cupboards for all our shoes.
No shoe is safe here either! There are some things that you can deal with through management like the shoes and other articles that are tempting to chew (remote controls, socks.......the list is endless for labradors) and other things you will need to deal with through training (confidence in being left, manners......that list is endless for us ) If it was me I would write down the areas of most concern and see which category they fall into and then make a plan. Julie's questions around crate training and counter conditioning are training approaches to some of the challenges you've described. Maybe also find something fun to do with your dog so you can see how much he can do. There are online classes if there's nothing local. Oh and step away from the Cesar Milan. That will definitely NOT help.
You would probably get more sleep with the dog in a crate next to your bed. He is unlikely to try and chew his way out if he can smell and hear you right next to him. If you divide all his daily food rations between several large Kongs, and freeze these, you'll have something to occupy him each time you need to leave him unsupervised or crated. Or when he wakes early in the morning. You say you don't need to take your dogs for walks, but some dogs won't exercise themselves no matter how much space is available to them. So your dog would benefit mentally and physically from either walking, or ball games etc. This in turn will help reduce his urge to chew and might help with the early morning waking. You obviously love your dog and are trying hard to help him. It is difficult to make good decisions when you are so tired, but it doesn't sound as though you have come to the end of the road with this dog yet. But maybe you just need a bit of a break and a chance to look at the situation from a different angle.
Hi again,I stopped by on your other thread ...I think whilst we've all had shoe casualties this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back wasn't it? You must be really tired with broken nights sleep all the time too.I haven't got the experience to help you out but if he will accept a crate and you don't have any problem with him having access to your room upstairs have you thought of crating him in your room at nightimes? I know this is more about coping with rather than sorting out the issue though. Poor Arthur,you've done so well this far ,let's see if we can support you through this and he can continue to flourish with you X
Hi Diana and welcome from us Hattie 8 years and our rescue boy Charlie 5 years. I am sorry you are having these issues with Arthur, you have been given great advice which you can implement and hopefully see the changes soon. If you should decide to take advice from a behaviourist I have looked on the APDT website and found this website www.sppot.org.uk they are in Pembrokeshire and hopefully not too far from you. I am pleased to see they use BAT training which I haven't seen on a trainers website before Owning a rescue Labrador x Pointer I know just how difficult it can be taking on a dog with difficulties and believe me we came to the end of our tether many, many times. Please keep posting and between us we will do the best we can to help you. Helen xx
