Hi, this is my first post but I've been reading many of the issues raised with great interest and have learnt loads already. We are the proud owners of two 15 week old puppies which we have had since they were 8 weeks old. They have settled in with the family really well and seem to be enjoying themselves. We have been told by a few people that we should start separating them to avoid separation anxiety. Currently they spend all their time together, playing and chilling in their day bed during the day and sleeping in a crate together at night. I am around most of the day with them and only go out for short periods of time, 2 hours max. They are crated when I leave the house. Your views and advice would be greatly appreciated on this subject about whether or not separation is something we should start doing. Looking at them snuggled up together it seems unfair to do this, but at the same time we want to do what is right and healthy for our dogs. Thank you
H Liz and welcome to the forum. I think I will leave this to those with more experience (@snowbunny ) but I think separate walks and training will help with this. What are their names? They do look VERY cute there jac
I think it's important that they are able to spend time apart, for example if one needs to go to the vets, but as Jac says separate walks and training will help them to be independent of each other. Tell us more about your pups, and we love photos
Hi Liz and welcome to you and your lovely pups, from Hattie 8 years and rescue boy Charlie 5 years. I have no experience at all but as Jac said @snowbunny and @Jen do so lots of help coming your way. Helen xx
Hi Liz and welcome from me and my two monsters, Willow (black girl) and Shadow (yellow boy). They are litter mates and now 19 months old. I read a huge amount about Littermate Syndrome before bringing the two home, and knew it was frowned on and had a lot of work on my hands. If you've not read up on it, I would spend some time doing so. There's lots of scary stuff out there about it, but I think it's important to know the potential pitfalls early, so you can do your best to try to avoid them. For me, this involved making sure they spent a lot of time apart. I think it's very important that they are able to be left alone individually, because there will be times when you have to do this. For example, if you have to take one to the vet without the other. And, ultimately, though we don't like to think about it, at the end of their lives. I take mine out at least once a day individually. This gives me time to bond with the one dog - we're generally doing training, which they both love. At first, my husband would stay home with the second one, so he got bonding time, too, but as time went on, he started leaving the one at home for a few minutes etc, so it learnt to be alone. Now, they're both quite happy to be left completely alone for an hour plus. Be aware as your dogs grow up that they will probably play a lot more roughly with one another than with other dogs, and this can look (and sound) quite ferocious. You need to keep a close eye on it to make sure that it does remain just play, that they are taking turns at being "the winner" and it doesn't turn nasty. From what I've read, quite often litter mates can end up being actively aggressive to one another, to the extent it's impossible to have them remain living together, so that's something you have to keep in mind and try to avoid. It was something that really concerned me, especially in adolescence, and I kept a really close eye on all their interactions to ensure that there was no aggressive behaviour. There wasn't, in our case, but I had sleepless nights over the thought of having to give one or the other up. I even knew which one I'd have to re-home if it came to it, and the thought of it absolutely broke my heart. You don't say what sex your pups are. If one is male and one female like ours, you have to decide what to do when the girl comes into season. For us, the most sensible option was to have Willow spayed before her first season. While she was recuperating, Shadow went to live with friends who live close by. The work we had done on separating them was very useful here, because neither of them was bothered by it. I'm not sure I'd approach this the same way if it happened again, and would let the bitch go through a season, although this is obviously harder to manage with a boy in the house, in hindsight, I think it's my preferred option. Not that I'm going to have litter mates again!! Another thing you should be really careful with is socialisation with other dogs. Mine have very limited exposure to other dogs, because of where we live. When they were young puppies, they were great with other dogs, but when Shadow hit adolescence, he started to be bullied a lot by other males, and it's made him quite reactive towards boy dogs he doesn't know. He is a lot worse when Willow is around, even though she is fabulous with all dogs, but he becomes protective/possessive of her and it makes him even more reactive. We're working on this - we're going to see a behaviourist about it when we're back in the UK in a few weeks - but it's a long road. You need to have a good plan together for training. Think about the things you need them to do in everyday life. A big one is lead walking. My two are both really good at walking on a loose lead when they're being walked individually, but it's a lot, lot harder when I'm trying to walk the two of them together. You need to start work on this as soon as is practical, because having one big, strong Labrador pulling you down the road is bad enough, let alone two! So, really hammer your loose lead walking from a very young age. I absolutely and wholeheartedly recommend clicker training them, so if you've not looked into that, please do. There are loads of great articles about it on the main website, as well as some really resources in this forum. If you need to be pointed in the right direction, give us a shout. Another important behaviour is a settle. With one dog, but especially with two. So, work on getting them to be able to settle on separate mats, next to each other, without them playing. Imagine the scenario of trying to have a coffee in a cafe with your dogs - you need them to be able to chill out on the floor without playing with each other and pulling you off your chair/knocking the table over. One Lab can be embarrassing enough, let alone two terrors In the early days, I did lots of clicker training of behaviours at home. I taught one dog to settle on a piece of vet bed whilst I was working with the other. This is a really important skill to have, learning to take turns. Basically, every time I clicked a behaviour for the "working" puppy, the one that was settled on the mat got a treat, too. Over time, I was able to fade the frequency of treats given to the settled dog, and now I have a dog that is quite happy to sit and wait until it's their turn to "play". As I alluded to above, I wouldn't have litter mates again - basically because I know that I have two dogs that are nowhere near as fully trained at this point as they would have been had I just had one. That said, they are absolutely wonderful and give me so much pleasure, I wouldn't be without either one of them now. But it is seriously hard work. Seriously. Good luck, and please do share some pictures of them.
I have nothing to add after Fiona's well written advice....we have Dexter and he's our first dog and will be our only dog for a long time yet....I just wanted to welcome you to the Forum and look forward to hearing about your experiences with your dogs x
Hi Liz. My two are brothers and are five years old. A handful at times but they are calming down and yes they sometimes sound like they are killing each other . I found the forum when my dogs were two and until Fiona joined a year later I'd never heard of litter mate syndrome so I probably broke all the rules and I've had no major problems. All the advice Fiona has given you is excellent. It is important to get them used to being apart it will make life a lot easier although I know what you mean about it being a shame. You don't have to separate them at night they can still snuggle. My two slept together in a kennel until last November. They now sleep in seperate crates. If you use a crate then, when they get bigger, if you still want to crate them, unless you've got a massive crate you will probably need two. I wasn't as strict with individual training as I think Fiona has been. Once they'd grasped the idea on their own I trained them together so things like retrieving, stay, heel work they've been doing together for a long time. I have also always walked them together from day one. They do get individual walks but starting them off on leads together from very young I found helped a lot with things like loose lead walking and the position they walk in so they don't keep swapping sides and getting in a knot. My main advice would be enjoy them they aren't pups for long don't spend the time worrying about what might happen or what you might do wrong. It can be difficult at times but I would have litter mates again.
Hi Fiona Thank you so much for your very interesting and informative response, it is a great help and I will start working on some of the recommendations immediately. They are sisters and like you said their play does get quite aggressive sounding at times, but I think they are equally as bad as each other but again that is something I will keep an eye on. So far training has been difficult to enforce as I'm on my own during the day but now I know I should train them individually I will crack on with that. We are first time dog owners and most people have said we are crazy getting two dogs at once. If only we'd realised what potentially we were getting ourselves into we may have reconsidered that! We wouldn't change it now as they are firmly part of the family and we all love them very much. Thanks again for all your advice and I will keep you posted on our progress. Kind regards Liz
Hi Jen Thank you for your very helpful response. It's hard not to panic when you start reading things and wonder if you've made the worst mistake ever in getting two dogs. Our two are sisters. So far their behaviour has been great, they play fight which sounds very aggressive at times but it is just playing. I will work on doing things separately like walking, training and playing just so they get some experience of time on their own. You have put my mind at rest on a lot of things. When you read articles you find so many conflicting reports and you end up so confused about what is right. I guess as the dogs get older we will get to know their personalities more and know what works best for them. Thank agin Liz
Just to show you what my two look like when they're playing... But it's accompanied by lots of signals to say it's just play - mainly lots of sneezing and snorting, which I read early on is a very common thing dogs do to tell each other it's just play
[GALLERY=]j[/GALLERY]W Who thought Labradors could look so mean & aggressive! Lol It's all very similar to what is going on here really, if they're not snuggled up they are playing. I have taken onboard all the advice I've been given and will start working on making my two well behaved and happy dogs. Thank you
Ha ha, I'm getting more nervous by the minute!! Ok I'll re-phrase that 'happy, playful and semi well behaved'
