Feeling very shook up following our walk. We walk on our estate and then to a wooded alley way and then back onto a busy road back onto our estate. For the past few days Rolo has been attracted to a particular spot in the wooded alley way area, my daughter caught Rolo eating out of an empty chicken tray. There was nothing in the tray when she got there so didn't mention it to me. The next day he went back to the same spot and my daughter managed to see inside the empty chicken tray and said it looked like dog food, within seconds he ate the lot. We talked about the next day we would put him back on his lead so as to avoid the area. We let him off his lead, the kids run off he chases them then I call him to me he runs between them and me. They ran ahead I shouted for them to come back as we were getting close to that area but they couldn't hear me and Rolo got into the area, he came out with a leg of lamb! I have been wondering why someone would be leaving food between chicken trays. This is what I have come up with; 1. Someone is being malicious and poisoning food for animals to eat, maybe a rat problem so putting rat poison in food, maybe doesn't like dogs being in the area. 2. Seen the odd deer so maybe someone is trying to entice more deer to the area. Surely deer wouldn't eat a leg of lamb or a yorkshire pudding. 3. Maybe someone wants to use leftover food they have to feed wildlife. Whatever the reason, I was worried and didn't want Rolo to eat the lamb (cooked by the way, not a full leg either). So I tried to get it off him he was guarding it and was barking, growling, hackles up. Scaring the kids. Scaring me to be honest. We were stuck in the alley way. I couldn't get his lead back on he was proper going for me snapping. I walked away in different directions hoping he would leave the lamb he followed but still had the lamb. The lamb had quite a bit of meat on it so couldn't let him eat enough to let me near him to put his lead on. I was getting really panicky kids were crying. Keeping their distance. My daughter suggested running home to get something better to tempt him away but I wasn't comfortable with her running home or me leaving them with Rolo. About 15 minutes passed and then I decided I had to do something so I just grabbed his collar and got his lead on, he was still growling and barking but I did it. Once the lead was on I carried on walking, lamb still in his mouth about 2 minutes later he dropped the lamb and we walked away. What did I learn from it all? Need to sort the resource guarding out. Needs to be on his lead past that area. Things can go from great to dilemma in a matter of seconds. Going to have a glass of wine and a lie down.
Re: Shook up! Aw, big hugs to you. I'm terrified about the bins here - we have communal bins outside, very regularly along all the roads, which are emptied every day. In the summer, we have a few feral cats. Not a nuisance, and they keep to themselves, but someone took it upon themselves a few years ago to try to poison them. Two pet dogs ended up poisoned, too. One, a small JR type that lived next door to us, died. The other, a young, strong Goldie, was very ill, on life support for several days and never full recovered from it. There hasn't been the same problem since, but I am so conscious of not letting them around the bins, for fear of a repeat episode. So, when they're not on the lead, I ensure they're walking to heel past every bin and they get loads of high-value treats for that. Today on our walk, there were bits of food all along the walk and it made me super nervous. I didn't understand why it would be there - the only people stupid enough to walk on that super slippy path at the moment are dog walkers, none of whom would do that. So I was constantly asking W&S to leave. Very stressful! I'm sure it's just someone putting food out for wildlife in both our cases, especially with it being winter. But I don't like it, and will never shake the thought it's something nasty. Hope your wine helped you to calm down a bit x
Re: Shook up! Arggg can only imagine what an awful experience it was for all of you. Including Rolo probably. Hope you will get better soon. It makes me curious to know how you train the dog so he responds in these situations i.e. a) does not run off to eat the food in the first place b) detrain the resource guarding c) handle that specific situation. I guess the price for him for running away and not letting go of the lamb is just so big that he and many many dogs would not respond to commands they usually respond to. On the specific situation, what type of correction would you apply so this does not happen again? I know that most of us do not like to apply corrections but in a situation like this I am asking myself if it is needed? What does best practice(s) look like here? A.
Re: Shook up! I think if you have a strong enough recall, it's second nature for the dog to respond to it, almost instinctively. Like when the phone rings and you immediately flinch to move towards it, even if you know you're in the middle of something else and don't want to answer it. I'm lucky that my two came with a great recall already, but I make sure I specifically train it with amazing treats to keep it strong. Note to self: must do some of the tomorrow! The same would apply to any cue, so no reason that "leave it" couldn't be the same. Maybe a little more tricky to train in the first instance, especially once the food is in the dog's mouth. On my "to do" list There's an article on the site about working with resource guarding: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/how-to-stop-your-dog-growling-over-food/
Re: Shook up! How worrying for you I have taught mine to swap anything for a smelly tripe stick - which I always carry with me (wrapped in cling film as they stink) Tatze was only young when she pranced up to me with a poisoned rat She swapped happily. Phew! Thank goodness for poo bags too - to put it in. She has swapped various things since - mainly animal bones and cat poo (bleugh!) I teach Gypsy the same smelly tripe 'swap' for nice chews, filled bones etc etc, although she hasn't found anything she shouldn't have - yet.
Re: Shook up! In that situation I would have said in loud, very firm, non nonsense voice, to LEAVE IT. I leave this type of voice for really important moments, because if that becomes a regular thing they will switch off and ignore. You had already tried the nice approach, and distraction didn't work either so that is when I would use it. If Rolo had returned to you then you would give lots of praise in a happy voice and reward with a treat, just so he knows that the cross voice has gone. You can practice this at home by putting tempting treats on the floor and telling him to leave it. Hope this helps Chloe
Re: Shook up! [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9343.msg134114#msg134114 date=1420226811] Arggg can only imagine what an awful experience it was for all of you. Including Rolo probably. Hope you will get better soon. It makes me curious to know how you train the dog so he responds in these situations i.e. a) does not run off to eat the food in the first place b) detrain the resource guarding c) handle that specific situation. I guess the price for him for running away and not letting go of the lamb is just so big that he and many many dogs would not respond to commands they usually respond to. On the specific situation, what type of correction would you apply so this does not happen again? I know that most of us do not like to apply corrections but in a situation like this I am asking myself if it is needed? What does best practice(s) look like here? A. [/quote] No correction. This was my fault not Rolo's. He's a dog, a lab at that. Food is what makes him tick. I didn't shout a recall I was away from the area so I can't blame my recall. He has had guarding issues since we brought him home, I can stroke him whilst he eats his kibble from the bowl, whilst he has a kong, whilst chasing his buster cube even sit next to him as he has a rib bone from the butchers. My husband can't be in the same room as him with a bone. This obviously was more special then anything he has ever had before. I suppose I needed to man up. If I had said a firm NO and clipped his lead on straight away none of this would have escalated yes I may have been nipped or even worse a full on bite but at least I would have taken charge of the situation. I wasn't with him as he entered the area but if I had of been and had got the emergency stop command in use I would have used that but I wasn't and I haven't.
Re: Shook up! That must have been horrible. Don't beat yourself up about it. He's only five months old. You can't be expected to have trained a dog for every eventuallity by five months. A nice glass of wine, a long soak in a bath is the first thing I would do. Next would be to start teaching "leave". Now whether this would work against a leg of lamb, mmmmmmm!
Re: Shook up! [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9343.msg134114#msg134114 date=1420226811] What does best practice(s) look like here? [/quote] Leaving aside the resource guarding, which is specific to this dog, and as Kris has identified, should be dealt with separately... And training a dog to stay with you, which can be done by rewarding the dog over and over so that's just the best place to be.... The best emergency strategy in these situations is a "magic word". This is a word that has been associated with the most fabulous rewards, repeatedly, asking nothing in return, so you hope it will over come just about anything. A cooked leg of lamb would be a challenge for just about any average owner though. But a punishment wouldn't work. If you punish the dog for approaching you, or letting itself get caught by you, when it has something it wants very badly, one thing is for sure - you won't catch the dog again when it has something hugely delicious. My magic word is "eureka" - it has been paired with hot roast chicken, right out of the oven, as soon as it's cool enough to eat. About 150 times now.
Re: Shook up! It works for dead, rotting seagulls - never tried it for a leg of lamb though! ;D ;D ;D Must go - chicken about to come out of the oven. Have to train my magic word!
Re: Shook up! Charlie - waiting for his "eureka" moment. ;D ;D ;D image by julieandcharlie, on Flickr
Re: Shook up! [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9343.msg134152#msg134152 date=1420231819] Charlie - waiting for his "eureka" moment. ;D ;D ;D image by julieandcharlie, on Flickr [/quote] Brilliant
Re: Shook up! Love the eureka idea. Ok so you give Charlie the chicken and say the wors eureka? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9343.msg134148#msg134148 date=1420230549] [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9343.msg134114#msg134114 date=1420226811] What does best practice(s) look like here? [/quote] And training a dog to stay with you, which can be done by rewarding the dog over and over so that's just the best place to be.... [/quote] This was my fault he was with the children, not me. He wasn't alone he hadn't strayed to far away from me. I was just lagging behind. Xmas chocolate and being indoors makes for energetic children and lethargic mothers!
Re: Shook up! [quote author=rubyrubyruby link=topic=9343.msg134136#msg134136 date=1420228515] In that situation I would have said in loud, very firm, non nonsense voice, to LEAVE IT. I leave this type of voice for really important moments, because if that becomes a regular thing they will switch off and ignore. You had already tried the nice approach, and distraction didn't work either so that is when I would use it. If Rolo had returned to you then you would give lots of praise in a happy voice and reward with a treat, just so he knows that the cross voice has gone. You can practice this at home by putting tempting treats on the floor and telling him to leave it. Hope this helps Chloe [/quote] Thanks Chloe, yes I didn't even think to give a leave it command. Saying that I don't think I would have stood a chance against the lamb.
Re: Shook up! [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=9343.msg134113#msg134113 date=1420226738] Aw, big hugs to you. I'm terrified about the bins here - we have communal bins outside, very regularly along all the roads, which are emptied every day. In the summer, we have a few feral cats. Not a nuisance, and they keep to themselves, but someone took it upon themselves a few years ago to try to poison them. Two pet dogs ended up poisoned, too. One, a small JR type that lived next door to us, died. The other, a young, strong Goldie, was very ill, on life support for several days and never full recovered from it. There hasn't been the same problem since, but I am so conscious of not letting them around the bins, for fear of a repeat episode. So, when they're not on the lead, I ensure they're walking to heel past every bin and they get loads of high-value treats for that. Today on our walk, there were bits of food all along the walk and it made me super nervous. I didn't understand why it would be there - the only people stupid enough to walk on that super slippy path at the moment are dog walkers, none of whom would do that. So I was constantly asking W&S to leave. Very stressful! I'm sure it's just someone putting food out for wildlife in both our cases, especially with it being winter. But I don't like it, and will never shake the thought it's something nasty. Hope your wine helped you to calm down a bit x [/quote] This is what worries me about small minded people who just don't give a rats ass about others. There are so.many safe ways to control vermin that don't harm other animals. The wine is beggining to work now. Might need to crack.open the 2nd bottle. Lol.
Re: Shook up! [quote author=Boogie link=topic=9343.msg134133#msg134133 date=1420228373] How worrying for you I have taught mine to swap anything for a smelly tripe stick - which I always carry with me (wrapped in cling film as they stink) Tatze was only young when she pranced up to me with a poisoned rat She swapped happily. Phew! Thank goodness for poo bags too - to put it in. She has swapped various things since - mainly animal bones and cat poo (bleugh!) I teach Gypsy the same smelly tripe 'swap' for nice chews, filled bones etc etc, although she hasn't found anything she shouldn't have - yet. [/quote] Gypsy is such a good girl. Ok need to break it to my husband that not only am I going to stink of doggy and be covered in dog hairs I'm going to smell fishy (sardines) and tripey (not sure what that will smell like but I can't imagine it's going to smell good) hopefully he will still love me. Thanks for the tip.
Re: Shook up! My word is "apple" but I need to work on it more as I seem to have more success with "this way!".
Re: Shook up! Glad the wine is working I have an emergency whistle for situations I really need Harley to come away from. I've only had to use it once when two dogs were fighting over what looked like a dead squirrel - luckily she came running straight back to me Rolo is still young and is doing so well. Try and remember all the good things he does
Re: Shook up! [quote author=Naya link=topic=9343.msg134165#msg134165 date=1420232767] Glad the wine is working I have an emergency whistle for situations I really need Harley to come away from. I've only had to use it once when two dogs were fighting over what looked like a dead squirrel - luckily she came running straight back to me Rolo is still young and is doing so well. Try and remember all the good things he does [/quote] Thank you I forget he's only a pup sometimes, especially when he's pulling me along like a steam train. Buying a whistle this week.
