Hello all! So, I've explained in another topic how Eric is excited around other dogs. He wants to play and when he sees another dog he will jump, bark, whine ...everything to get to the other dog and meet him/play. We worked a lot at this and after a few months have passed I don't see real improvement. So, what happened last night so you all get the picture: We were in a kind of a doggy park but smaller that it's very close to us (more like a big yard) which is surrounded by a fence, not very high one. We were the only ones there. We played with the ball... he retrieved for a long while so he was not with excess energy. Someone walked their dog really close to the fence of that "yard" (a male dog, husky..don't know if that is relevant). I was expecting Eric to go to the fence and bark at that dog but in a fraction of a second, before he left my side, I've seen him change his body language so I reacted and grabbed his collar, and he tried to go near the fence but i was holding him and he could not so he started barking but not the playful bark that i'm used to. The hair on his back went up and i could not settle him down until that other dog passed. Later on... we played some more with the ball done some training and we left. As we were leaving and walking home we encountered that dog again from the opposite direction. I was out of rewards and when we passed him same thing ...him barking and trying to get to him. It really upset me as I find myself with no solution ( His history with that dog: One time a few good months ago the owner of that dog decided to let him play in that yard. We were there and so were some other dogs. The owner got scared at Eric's way of meeting dogs and he removed his dog after 1 min. Ever since Eric has him on his list and every time he sees him he wants to play but last night was not about playing at all. Eric is 18 months now and he is an entire male (if that makes any difference). Do you think these are early sings of aggression? I don't know anymore!
First of all - don't jump to the conclusion that you've got an aggressive dog. I'd just say that Eric has met a dog that he simply does not like and/or is scared of (maybe because they never really got to conclude their first meeting properly). My solution would be just to avoid that dog as best as you possibly can. But don't fear that this is the start of a bigger problem. It most likely is not. That aside, it sounds like Eric is a very exuberant and possibly over the top greeter and gets very excited/worked up when he sees other dogs. He is mostly certainly not the only Labrador who is that way. But, if I'm reading your post correctly, it's been hard to make a lot of progress with this. I can imagine that that makes outings a bit stressful. It might be worth getting some professional help wth this, so you have a bit of on the ground advice and support. A very experienced dog behaviourist who uses positive (kind) training methods. Is that something you'd be open to considering?
Thank you for responding, Oberon. You understood perfectly. He is like that: exuberant and over the top greeter. Never seen any kind of aggression from him...he doesn't even growl...at all! Yes, I'm very open about meeting with a behaviorist, if i can find one .We have been to 3 dog trainers..so called behaviorists. First was really into the old ways of training and i stopped every interaction with him (he actually hit Eric with me there). Second told me to get him "fixed" and all my problems will go away. I found that hard to believe! Third said he was using positive methods but yanking on a leash was still present. Don't get me wrong, i'm still looking! Where I live it will be hard to find one, i'm sure, so i need to figure things out on my own then exposing him to those methods. The last trainer we actually went to him a while cause he was the only one that got any kind of results with him. When i say HE i mean that Eric would respond well only when he is holding the leash. I've just ordered Pippa total recall book and i hope it will help as i've seen on this forum comes highly recommended.
I think what you are describing is fairly common with young male dogs when they see another male dog of around their own size and age. As Rachael (Oberon) says, I would avoid that dog where possible, but try to create positive friendships with other dogs, meeting in a neutral place where they can say hello off lead. In my experience, male dogs who get themselves into a frenzy on a lead or through a fence with other male dogs can then find it hard to get back to any more low-key greeting with that particular dog. Since you describe Eric's greeting as being so over-the-top, he needs opportunities to learn how to behave around other dogs. I think it would also help to do some desensitization exercises with him, so that he can learn to walk nicely on the lead when another dog is nearby, whether he likes that dog or not.
Agree with above and believe with some training on how to get Eric to focus on you this can be overcome. It's well known that two dogs meeting, one on leash and one off leash, can set up misread body language signals on either or both sides. I think fences have much the same effect. Crates can as well. The leash or fence or crate makes the one dog feel trapped, is my theory. IN this situation you need your dog to look to your leadership. Oban desperately wants to react to a dog who acts like you describe Eric doing when we walk by his yard. This big, black dog charges his fence at us, barking ferociously. Oban is on leash, the other dog is loose in his yard. Leslie McDevitt's Look At That game from her book, "Control Unleashed" gets us by that dog. I didn't find the book till Oban was 18 months but it's helped us a lot. Good luck.
Karen We socialize with other dogs. After a few minutes have passed and they played a bit, Eric will transform again...he comes when i call and all that. The first few minutes he ignores me like i don't even exist. I want very much to do at least once a desensitization exercise with him but for that i need someone with a very mellow dog that can give me at least and hour of his/her time for a few days. I will not give up on that also. Thank you for your advise! Snowshoe I agree with everything you said. Somehow Eric missed the lesson "how you greet other dogs". I will lookup that book.Thank you very much!
Desensitisation for something like meeting dogs - for a dog that is super excited about other dogs - takes a long time, much more than a few days, more like a few weeks or months. I can’t tell you how bad my dog used to be around other dogs. He was impossible. Just as I thought he couldn't get more impossible than he already was, he needed surgery and was isolated for many months. When he got back out into the world, it was awful. Really awful. He would just go nuts at the sight of any dog. So nuts he was a danger to himself and me. Karen is right, the first step is desensitisation. And then you keep working and training until your dog stays under control when he sees another dog – even if that dog is green and looks at him funny, or even if that dog is a young, silly, labrador going nuts like my dog used to be and eventually even if the other dog is barking and growling at yours. It is quite difficult to do this on your own, because you can't expect the owners of dogs that you meet when out on a walk to co-operate with you, and at first you really do need to work around dogs that are going to be predictable. I spent almost an entire summer on this. I was very lucky, and found a trainer that (after she had carefully assessed my dog) was prepared to let me work around her dogs. This was a godsend, and was exactly what I needed. I completely appreciate that it’s hard enough finding a good trainer, let alone find a trainer that will provide a kennel full of dogs. She had 14…. I started by just trying to walk my dog round a perfectly trained gundog, who ignored him no matter what. I was as far away as I could get and still be in the same field. I walked round and round that dog, rewarding my dog for any calmness I got (which at first was nothing – he was lunging and carrying on, but I couldn't get any further away and still see the dog so I just had to live with that). When we made progress with that, we did the same with a younger dog who would look over to my dog. Then a puppy, then a rescue dog that was a bit reactive. Then I went to every pet dog class I could go to, just to walk around other dogs. I took my 2 year old dog to puppy class to walk round puppies …and so on. Every opportunity I could find, I took. I still do this today, 18 months later. We are still working on it even though he is much, much better these days. He will still tug towards another dog, wagging his tail (which I don't mind, but could do without the tugging) and sometimes –for no apparent reason –he’'ll have a bit of a ‘carry on’. But it’s generally manageable. It’'s really difficult to get over that initial stage, where your dog just doesn't seem to be able to control himself, but you’ve just got to keep at it, keep working and one day he'll seem not so bad, then a bit better, and so on. Best of luck with it.
Since our move from France Juno has become very keen to meet and greet other dogs when we are out walking, ending with her leaping around and nearly pulling my arm out of it's socket. I haven't fully worked out the reasons except we see more dogs each day than we did in rural Normandy. I have however found a trainer and have a 1-2-1 session booked to try and resolve, and completed a 10 page questionnaire for the trainer. I'm also signing up for a Good Companion course just to make sure we really solve the problem and learn to remain calm around other dogs. God luck with finding a trainer who only uses positive reinforcement, I know it's not easy in some places
Sorry you had a not so nice experience.....slightly different to your situation but Dexter is lead reactive and a really sensitive boy.I was starting to struggle on walks,experiencing similar behaviours you describe, it was upsetting and embarassing and I was starting to get anxious about it.This is the worst thing you can do but is very hard to avoid.I was starting to think my lovely boy was agressive and he isnt x I have done a LOT of work with him,very similar to Julie's description.I found a great trainer to have 121's with in a doggie daycare centre and joined a group class for reactive dogs...now that was something I can tell you,what some poor folk are dealing with trying to help their dog cope.... Just with you mentioning the husky.....some dogs just don't like some dogs ,but Dexter does have a particular problem with Huskies....i think due to their eyes...they are so striking ( and I think quite beautiful) but they are quite 'starey' and Dexter doesn't like that.My friend has rescued a husky and he is absolutely fine with her now that he knows her but it hasn't helped him over come his Breedism!He isnt keen on border collies either..... If you can find an experienced trainer and you can practice around dogs,you will definately be able to help Eric cope more calmly Best of luck
In my experience with Charlie it's true some dogs just don't like other dogs or breeds just as people don't like all people. Charlie has a dislike for a large male Boxer and Doberman (the feeling is mutual ) in our village which is in ongoing training but I really don't think it will make a difference so wherever possible we try to avoid these dogs creating distance. It takes a lot of work and we use BAT there is a really good thread on the forum explaining this technique which we use with great success, it's really worth looking. Do you have a good "look at me" cue? I find this very useful with Hattie who is not reactive at all but she has been set about by a Border Collie a few times and she really becomes anxious if we see it, a good "look at me" with lots of treats helps her a great deal to walk past this dog that really does give her the 'evils' Helen x
Hi I have two nervous reactive labradors who are now no longer as nervous or reactive. I have used BAT as well as some other methods of counter conditioning to help desensitise my dogs to strangers. They no longer bark at people or dogs passing, stopping to talk, even standing very close. We still have some issues with strangers touching but they will accept treats from them now. This is the BAT thread Helen (Charlie) mentioned which I started http://thelabradorforum.com/forum/need-help-with-your-labrador/labrador-behaviour/5046-bat-tips The BAT website is www.empoweredanimals.com You might find the learn more section useful. The BAT book by Greisha Stewart has a chapter for frustrated greeters which might help you with Eric's exuberant greeting of other dogs. It's basically the same as BAT for nervous/scared dogs but the functional reward when the dog is calm is to move nearer to the other dog rather than further away which you do if it's nervous. This is a link to the book on Amazon where you can look inside http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Ad...d=1452952751&sr=8-1&keywords=bat+dog+training As for this particular husky I agree with the others try to avoid it it's possibly giving of signals Eric doesn't like. My two really don't like dogs that stare at them as this is confrontational body language. Good luck it takes time but it does work I promise.
Thank you all for your words! Sorry for the late response been very busy with work passed few days. We have been trying to train the "look at me" command for a while now (months) he will respond 80-90% of the time but those 10-20% are the problem. He ignores me and will not except any treat I might have. I always have high quality treats on me! I think I don't know what is really the problem there: is he frustrated, nervous, fearful. I would say he is frustrated but I'm not sure. Also, the problem for me is that I encounter like 10+ dogs at any giving day so it's impossible to avoid them. A lot of those dogs are reactive in one way or another (some act like he does, just wanting to meet and play...some are plain aggressive and some just ignore him). The ones that ignore him are the ones that we have less trouble with. He would respond to "look at me" command when we see those dogs. To the aggressive ones he will respond by barking and then he will look at me. The ones that want to meet and play are a no go. That is when he ignores me most of the time. We almost never have what one can call a "good walk". Lets say that I could find someone with a dog to help me implement BAT. The exercises I do with him would all be nullified by our next exit out in the world as I'm sure we will meet another dog and all would be erased from his brain. Is it also an age thing? I imagine his hormones are sky rocket at this age (just turned 19 months). Lots of people also tell me that he will calm down after 2 years...
Camy I haven't had anyone to implement BAT with. I assume you mean doing the set up exercises. My main problem is with people not dogs so it wasn't realistic to ask complete strangers to stand still while I BAT them I mainly used the chapter 'BAT in the real world' I think this is on the website and it has worked. I have also found the book 'Why Does My Dog do that' by Caroline Spencer very useful. It uses very similar techniques to BAT but it covers all aspects of daily life with your dog helping you to teach your dog that it can trust you to make the right decision he doesn't need to worry. It also has techniques on keeping your dog calm in stressful or exciting situations like the Calm Walk where you just keep turning and walking your dog around so looking away from whatever is causing arousal until it calms and can focus on you. I do think it's a good method of teaching any dog to trust and I'd recommend it for dogs who aren't particularly reactive as all dogs react in some way like barking at the door, getting excited with visitors etc Here is a link to it on amazon you can look inside it http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-Do...54037&sr=8-2&keywords=Why+does+my+dog+do+that
Hi Camy I haven't had anyone implement BAT either, Jen is your woman as she is very knowledgeable on this training method which works wonders It really works because you do teach your dog that "it is OK" and to trust you but it takes time this will not work overnight and being consistent is absolutely necessary. It has worked with my rescue boy Charlie with great results. Read up on it and give it a go you have nothing to lose
Thank you for mentioning this topic on the board. I have the same thing going on with Finn. Reading the advise with you!!! Annemarie
