Silver x silver breeding

Discussion in 'Labrador breeding & genetics' started by joeTn, Dec 17, 2021.

  1. joeTn

    joeTn Registered Users

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    I have a male and a female silver lab I have bred 3 times. Every breeding has produced charcoal and silver pups. People tell me this isn't possible but has happened3 times. Both of my silver had silver and charcoal parents. Can this be explained
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2021
  2. sarah@forumHQ

    sarah@forumHQ Moderator

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    Hi Joe, welcome to the forum :)

    As you've already been told, getting charcoal pups from two silver Labs is pretty improbable.

    We've got an article about color inheritance here on our main site, which explains why and you might find interesting. Briefly though, in order to produce charcoal puppies, either mom or dad would have had to carry the gene for a black coat (black being the base color for charcoal, and brown being the base color for silver). But since the gene for a black coat is dominant over the gene for a brown coat, they themselves would have to have been charcoal (or black) too.

    The only thing I can think of is that both your Labs carry an alternative gene for producing a black coat, called Recessive Black (which is, rather confusingly, also known as the a gene). Recessive black is inherited in the same way as color dilution - it is carried silently when a dog only has one copy of the gene, and only expressed when a puppy inherits it from both parents. If both of your dogs are carriers of recessive black, then they would be brown/silver, but roughly one quarter of their puppies would be charcoal.

    The recessive black gene isn't typically associated with Labs, but it's responsible for black coats in several herding and pastoral breeds including German Shepherds, Shetland Sheepdogs, Pulis and Schipperkes. So it would have to had found it's way into your Labs by outcrossing with one of those breeds at some point in their distant family tree. I guess this wouldn't be any stranger than any of the other coat color genes which also exist at low frequencies in the Lab pedigree (such as the dilution gene!)

    If you wanted to test this hypothesis, there is a genetic test for the recessive black gene which you can order online in the UK. I don't know if it's available elsewhere, and I'm afraid I can't afford to reimburse you if I'm dead wrong!

    Finally (I've rambled on a bit, sorry) enjoy your puppies. I have a special soft spot for charcoal coats, I think they're rather gorgeous :)
     
  3. joeTn

    joeTn Registered Users

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    Thanks for the answer. I'm sorry I didn't see the first answer. It has to be the answer. I posted my pups in a facebook group and got
    I apologize for posting a second time. I was waiting on an email saying I had an answer and never saw one. I posted my pups in a facebook group and got blasted saying they couldn't be parents. But they are ,like I said 3 breeding with same results. My dogs are tested thru Embark and are 100% lab and I would never try to cheat anyone. That's why it bothers me so bad. Again I apologize for posting twice. You gave me an answer that helps me feel better about it.
     
  4. sarah@forumHQ

    sarah@forumHQ Moderator

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    Sorry, when I typed "as you've been told" I meant it as a reference to people in the past telling you it isn't possible, not anything anyone has said on here!

    I could have been clearer there, I must have been in too much of a rush to get to the juicy genetic stuff :)

    Anyway, I apologise for worrying you!
     

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