Hi all, I'm so happy to have found this group and Pippa's great articles--it's all been so helpful and really helped me get my head wrapped around the craziness of life with a puppy. We just got Omar, a yellow English lab, two weeks ago and he is over 9 weeks old now. He's just lovely, very social, always wanting to be with us but also content to be outside on his own sometimes and has slept all night long in his crate with barely a whimper since the second night. Toilet training is also going really well--we've only had one accident in the house in the past five days. I have so much to be grateful for. And yet I'm very concerned and anxious because Omar has snarled at us and snapped his teeth four times now. I understand that growling and rough play and lots of biting and nipping are entirely normal. But I'm not sure if the snarling is something else entirely. I read Pippa's article on overexcited puppies and I'm hoping that's what it is. The first time was when my husband picked him up because a car was backing up in the driveway, and Omar snapped and struggled and snarled. The next time was this past Saturday, after Omar had met a dog down the street, and they played for a bit but then we took him away because we didn't want him to be over-stimulated. Omar wanted to get down of course, and he snarled and squirmed and tried to bite my husband's hands as he held him. He made sure not to put him down until he was calm. The third time was later that night when Omar and I were playing ball and I tried to take the ball from him after he brought it back to me, and he snarled and snapped. I held him gently down by the neck--it was my instinctual reaction--and then I picked him up until finally he stopped but I was very sad about it. I worried that it was aggression. Then the most recent time was yesterday (Sunday), when he was outside sniffing around in the front yard (a place that drives him crazy with all the smells--more so than the back yard), and I went to pick him up, trying first to exchange the exciting smells with a toy. The snarling and snapping started all over again. He punctured my finger so badly that there was quite a bit of blood. Sharp little teeth! My neighbor was there and was shocked, and said his puppy had never done that and it must be a Labrador trait. My husband tells me not to get too attached to Omar, hinting maybe that he thinks we might have to return Omar to the breeder, but I'm determined to work on this. I have three children so of course their safety comes first but he is very good with them and they have worked with our trainer a bit so they know what to do when he nips. We keep him tethered sometimes in the house, next to me while I'm cooking dinner or breakfast, and the kids just get up and leave, not saying anything, when he gets nippy. I feel like the mouthiness is getting slightly better. It's the snarling that keeps me awake at night, worrying about whether he is ok. We had our trainer come out yesterday, after the first 3 incidents, and she gave great advice, such as always giving him a treat or a toy he loves instead of just taking a ball, and giving a treat before picking him up. We are working on clicker training so will do lots of click-and-treat for reaching for the collar, picking him up, etc. (right now if we reach out to put on his collar or leash or just to pet him, his instinctual reaction is to go for our hands and nip/bite). She also couldn't recreate any of the incidents, either with a ball or bringing him out to the front yard and then picking him up, so she doesn't think he's aggressive. Has anyone had experiences like this? I have had dogs before, although it's been over 15 years, and never had any snarling, just playful growling, so I don't know what's normal. I contacted the breeder and she said she's very concerned and has never had a puppy do anything like that, so I'm confused. Thank you for all your help. Just reading threads here on this forum is very helpful and (somewhat) comforting. Erika
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? It's part of their play - if you see two dogs playing there is a lot of snappy stuff going on. Of course, we don't want them to do it with humans so they are discouraged from doing it with us from the start. This little angel has her wrinkly nose, snappy, bitey time at 7pm every day!!
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=Boogie link=topic=7949.msg111982#msg111982 date=1411404716] It's part of their play - if you see two dogs playing there is a lot of snappy stuff going on. Of course, we don't want them to do it with humans so they are discouraged from doing it with us from the start. This little angel has her wrinkly nose, snappy, bitey time at 7pm every day!! [/quote] omg, She & Bouncer should have a "cute off"
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? i have non experience (literally... not picking my pup up until Saturday) but i saw on a documentary called Dogs 101 on an episode all about puppies and it said that rubbing frozen butter on your hands is a good way to teach the puppy to be gentle? He will be more inclines to lick rather than nip.... i realise you're meaning when he's overstimulated or somethings not going his way but it's worth a shot? Also - i think your neighbour is wrong, most labradors are soft as mush and wouldn't typically bite out of anger or anything. x
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=LovelyBonny link=topic=7949.msg111984#msg111984 date=1411404834] i have non experience (literally... not picking my pup up until Saturday) but i saw on a documentary called Dogs 101 on an episode all about puppies and it said that rubbing frozen butter on your hands is a good way to teach the puppy to be gentle? He will be more inclines to lick rather than nip.... i realise you're meaning when he's overstimulated or somethings not going his way but it's worth a shot? Also - i think your neighbour is wrong, most labradors are soft as mush and wouldn't typically bite out of anger or anything. Hope all goes well and someone else comes along with a better answer lol x [/quote] Adults are softies, pups are trying to play & bite a lot, & I mean A LOT. Plus ther lil teath are very sharp. Th frozen butter thing souns interesting but you will be dealing with a Lab here. Smarter than u think.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=Leanangle link=topic=7949.msg111987#msg111987 date=1411405054] [quote author=LovelyBonny link=topic=7949.msg111984#msg111984 date=1411404834] i have non experience (literally... not picking my pup up until Saturday) but i saw on a documentary called Dogs 101 on an episode all about puppies and it said that rubbing frozen butter on your hands is a good way to teach the puppy to be gentle? He will be more inclines to lick rather than nip.... i realise you're meaning when he's overstimulated or somethings not going his way but it's worth a shot? Also - i think your neighbour is wrong, most labradors are soft as mush and wouldn't typically bite out of anger or anything. Hope all goes well and someone else comes along with a better answer lol x [/quote] Adults are softies, pups are trying to play & bite a lot, & I mean A LOT. Plus ther lil teath are very sharp. Th frozen butter thing souns interesting but you will be dealing with a Lab here. Smarter than u think. [/quote] I think you could be right about dealing with a lab - clever little beggars! I might try it if we have a nipper and get back to you all!
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? Thank you so much for all your responses. And for reading my long post! I didn't realize I went on for so long until I saw it posted! guess I needed to vent my worries... I know puppies play very rough with each other, with lots of growling and biting, and Omar certainly does that with us, but the snarling seemed angry, you know? He was mad I was picking him up or taking his ball away. It wasn't playful, and I was bit scared. Hard to imagine now, when he's napping at my feet. Erika
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? Hi and welcome to the forum from me and 13 month old red fox lab, Harley If he snarles, I'm sure it is just his way of playing. I've never heard of a lab that snarles nastily personally. If you don't want this behaviour, I would completely ignore him when he does that or say 'no' firmly then ignore him or put him for a short time out in another room for a min. This will let him know that that behaviour isn't allowed. If you interact with him when he's like this he will think it's ok. Hope this helps a bit
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? I read on one of Poppa's articles that puppies are rarely aggressive under 6 months. Chepi had times of barking and wrinkly her lip up when the cat wouldn't play and I took him away (the cat). She would then demand that I play. A couple of times I popped her in her crate within view for a minute but then I tried playing a game for a couple of minutes in the garden and that just took the edge off. Puppies want to play. However, you don't have to do what they want. Watching my clicker trainer was an inspiration, so calm and assured. Get in touch with yours again and calmly reject behaviour you don't want. I worried about Chepi grabbing my clothes but this is fading away; it will get better if you stick with it and be consistent and calm. I am no expert though!!!
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? It sounds to me like your pup is quite "wound up" as well as just being part of normal puppy behaviour. Yes they can be little crocodiles but a bit like children if they get super wound up interrupting play can be challenging. You could interrupt play earlier on and help your pup manage his arousal levels better or have something to entice him out of play and into a calmer environment. I think holding your pup down or restraining him physically probably doesn't contribute to calmness either and can later on cause your dog to mask it's feelings which is undesirable.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=Jane Martin link=topic=7949.msg112019#msg112019 date=1411409403] I read on one of Poppa's articles that puppies are rarely aggressive under 6 months. Chepi had times of barking and wrinkly her lip up when the cat wouldn't play and I took him away (the cat). She would then demand that I play. [/quote] Yes! Gypsy does the same with me, but especially with Tatze. Tatze is very patient and just looks at the wrinkly nosed monster crocodile! When she does it to me I hold my hand up and say 'no' firmly, if she persists I hold her collar - then (when she is calm again) I do a bit of training to tire her out. It works, there's nothing like using their brain to tire a pupster out.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? I sure hope it's normal -- Rue snarls, growls, and snaps quite frequently! We have started putting her in timeout for it, which has helped.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? bbrown, I think you're absolutely right that restraining him when he's snarling is not the way to go. It was my instinct to hold him down because, I admit, I was taken aback and maybe a little scared, but I'm sure it frightened him too. And I definitely think that I need to manage his excitement levels and play time much better, but it has taken me a while to realize that just 5 minutes of playing ball are all he can take, and that maybe being in the living room with 8 people and the TV on is stressful for a puppy. I've been working on click/treat as I reach a hand toward his collar so that he learns not to just LUNGE and bite our hands (it's a gentle bite, luckily, but not fun anyway, especially for the kids). And on the advice of our trainer, I'm picking him up with a treat, holding him and talking gently and putting him back down. He generally seems to like being held and carried --or is he just tolerating it? at any rate he doesn't struggle. Thank you again for all of your kind advice and sharing your experiences--I know I will sleep better tonight. Erika
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? I've had alot of experience with dogs and puppies over the years and was still surprised at how "vicious" my little Edsel could appear when worked up into a state. There were a couple instances that I thought there might be something more than just "puppy being puppy" at play but found that with a little time out in his crate or just walking away from him, ignoring him, he would settle down quickly. I agree that trying to physically hold or restrain would just work him up more and make him think I was wrestling or playing. There were a couple situations, like you mention, where safety was a concern and I had to physically move him, but as soon as I could I got him back in the house and used the time out or ignore tactic to let him calm. I found that starting around 6 months he became much better able to settle himself when told to "take a rest." I agree that it would be very unlikely that this is any kind of aggressive behavior. Lori
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? Sounds fairly normal to me for many breeds we squeal and that stops it, they don't mean to hurt us they just don't realise we aren't as tough as they are, I just have to say hoooman now and Elsie stops biting so hard (she only does it when she gets carried away playing and it's my fault I play with her with my hands and feet which gets her very excited.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? Hi there and welcome. Please believe me that young Omar is NOT aggressive, he is completely normal. I was just re-reading my first posts on this forum and they were all about the horrible biting little creature I had taken into my house, who was tormenting my old dog and driving me mad with her biting and general obnoxious behaviour... It will all change, believe me. One thing that will really work when he is getting too excited and wild is to put him in his crate (or in a safe place behind a child gate) to give him a time to calm down. That will give both of you a chance to step back from the situation - I found that when Poppy was being especially awful (mostly in the evenings) that if I put her in her crate, which was in the living room with us, she would whine for a couple of minutes but then curl up and go to sleep. Be careful not to overuse this though, you don't want him thinking the crate is a punishment - it isn't, it's just a calm safe place for him to be. Good luck, and I bet anything in a couple of weeks you'll be telling us what a lovely, well-mannered dog you have...
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? Thanks to all of your kind advice and sharing your experiences, I was able to sleep a solid 7 hours last night with no worries and feel like a different person today! Omar has been lovely the past two days now that we have no neighbors and family dropping in like we often do on the weekends, and the kids are back at school, so he can sleep almost all day, which is what he seems to prefer. We now have a better idea of how much nap time/quiet time he needs and will make sure he gets that on the weekends too. Thanks again! Erika
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=erika link=topic=7949.msg112240#msg112240 date=1411518233] Thanks to all of your kind advice and sharing your experiences, I was able to sleep a solid 7 hours last night with no worries and feel like a different person today! Omar has been lovely the past two days now that we have no neighbors and family dropping in like we often do on the weekends, and the kids are back at school, so he can sleep almost all day, which is what he seems to prefer. We now have a better idea of how much nap time/quiet time he needs and will make sure he gets that on the weekends too. Thanks again! Erika [/quote] Funny you should say that! I posted my concerns over my Orion growling at family members over the summer, mostly later in the day....once he kids went back to school, and he was able to nap during the day, the growling all but stopped!!! Our theory was that he was like a toddler - cranky when exhausted. . So now I am careful to ensure he has time to sleep during the day, and it's helped tremendously. He's 10 months old, btw.
Re: Snarling puppy--is this normal? [quote author=Suthuncat link=topic=7949.msg112241#msg112241 date=1411520772] [quote author=erika link=topic=7949.msg112240#msg112240 date=1411518233] Thanks to all of your kind advice and sharing your experiences, I was able to sleep a solid 7 hours last night with no worries and feel like a different person today! Omar has been lovely the past two days now that we have no neighbors and family dropping in like we often do on the weekends, and the kids are back at school, so he can sleep almost all day, which is what he seems to prefer. We now have a better idea of how much nap time/quiet time he needs and will make sure he gets that on the weekends too. Thanks again! Erika [/quote] Could on agree more I think pupps are very similarity to toddlers. Seems if they have a routine of rest play balanced really helps. For every session of waking including play eating etc Lemmy needs at least an hour nap just like a toddler. If he gets a bit crocadog we yelp and totally stop play so far it really works and he looks pitiful we walk away or doing something's different then after only five minutes we tell him to sit then his reward is appropriate non snapatooth attention.Sure its a passing thing glad it seems to be improving and your getting some rest us new "mums" need all our energy. Funny you should say that! I posted my concerns over my Orion growling at family members over the summer, mostly later in the day....once he kids went back to school, and he was able to nap during the day, the growling all but stopped!!! Our theory was that he was like a toddler - cranky when exhausted. . So now I am careful to ensure he has time to sleep during the day, and it's helped tremendously. He's 10 months old, btw. [/quote]
