Ahhhh I'm so angry, I'm on a few Labrador pages on Facebook (love seeing all the gorgeous dogs), last night someone posted asking for ideas to help her 10 wk old puppy from bitting, my god I was horrified from some people's responses, they were saying hold her muzzle, bite her, hold her down, a little thump on the nose with a newspaper, squirt water,show that you are the dominant alpha. I just couldn't believe what I was reading, I did go back saying I can't believe what I'm reading. Well any way wake up at stupid o clock this morning look at Facebook, I've had someone ask me how many dogs I've trained, like that matters, but further down the page this same person is saying he has over 60 yrs experience in training dogs, and when a pup is exhibiting aggressive & harmful behaviour firm corrections are in order, he says he grasps the muzzle and gently but firmly press the upper lips against the upper teeth and with an angry voice... no biting. Any way this woman said she is going with the snout thing, i have no words. i am horrified that people still do this and they think it is ok. Sorry just needed to vent.
I have come across these people too Helen , and their horrible methods . Its tough, on FB groups , to be the one to stand up and say No, that's not right , so be proud of yourself for doing just that . Unfortunately , there are those who wont listen to reason , but maybe there are others who have listened and thought about it , you did all you could x
Thanks Kate, I've just been having a debate with this guy on this post, he is saying he trained for 40 yrs now he trains Labs, the one he has now he actually said he hasn't had to use the leash in a year, I had to ask him if he used it walk the dog or hit it, he has declined to answer that comment but he did say that he bets his dog can outdo mine in a completion of who can do what. Yes but only difference is my dog doesn't do it out of fear mine gets treats (lucky boy) I am absolutely horrified what these people are saying, and say look what mum does, yes only difference mum has done all she can in preparing the pups for life, then it turns to us, and I would absolutely hate for any pup to be mistreated in the name of training.
Oh dear, Helen, how sad that there are people who just won't listen. What does it matter whether his dog can beat yours - at least yours is trained through love, not domination. Well done for standing up for what's right in the face of such opposition.
Let's face it he's probably lying you can say anything on the net thingy.I've trained and owned Labradors for a 100 years and the queen buys them from Me. They are better than any labrador in the world at everything and they are helping nasa with their space programme and working on top secret goverment stuff. Its easy to lie. They are bullies they tried to upset you because they are unkind and have closed minds. Luckily they are dinosaurs and their ideas will die out with them. You are doing the right thing your dog is happy . You only have to look at the biological facts, using force is conterproductive to learning. You were brave and oftered an alternative but sometimes its just pearls before swine. Some people want what they think is a quick fix. Its not though we all know that. So sorry you had to put up with that rubbish but it is out there . His dogs better than your dog makes him sound about 10. There are plenty of brilliantly trained dogs on here the would out do his in a minute it's just not even an justifiable argument. Mine aren't obviously
@Helen This " trainer " doesn't happen to have the initials C . U . does he ? I don't want to start mentioning names on a forum or even discussing him in any way , but will just say that if it is this person , there is little hope of a conversion , he is so set in his ways, old school or no school , its very sad indeed , for the dogs x
Kate, no that's not his name, the group is The Yellow Labrador Retriever Club. This is the first time I have come across comments like this, I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.
I left all groups some time ago Helen , due to bitchiness from those who don't like anyone to disagree . I very briefly joined one for owners of dogs with lymphoma , the advice dished out was frightening . Groups can be supportive , on occasions , but not for me x
Good for you I bet there was loads of others who wished they felt able too. It doesn't matter how many years you've been training or how many dogs we can all learn new things.
It's certainly all pretty tragic when you think of the puppies and dogs on the receiving end of stupidity, ignorance, human ego and cruelty. That's why we have this forum.....
How awful some people are. I stopped going on groups or even really discussing training unless someone asks me a specific question when they have a puppy etc. I have a girl on Facebook who is REALLY into positive reinforcement and she has 3 dog so I'll sometimes have a chat with her because hers are much better trained than mine Apart from that I just come to this forum because it's full of nice people who love their dogs and that's exactly who I want to be speaking to about mine
It just says something very sad about human nature some of us for whatever reason would rather be cruel than kind
Posting anything on Facebook is fraught with danger. Nice to look at. Avoid anything controversial. Don't get drawn into discussion. Keep it happy. That's my mantra
Mine too Jac , in fact I often wonder why I bother keeping my FB page private , as it tends to be full of photos ,of the dogs ! Or Ross Poldark !
I'm part of two Facebook pages for fox red labs and have seen very similar posts. I always challenge and put in there about positive reinforcement and put a link to this sites webpage for biting/crate training etc. Some people really don't want to listen and I feel so sad for their dogs . Good on you for challenging.
But you are planting the seed of a better method and it may well land on some people who may begin to think and question their methods and change!
You can't change a fixed mind. But you can influence an open one. So, there is no point trying to change this person's mind. BUT it is very, very worthwhile making your challenge, because lots of other people will read that thread (including the original poster). You have done a great job of highlighting the fact that there is no need to be cruel to achieve great training results, and that all up-to-date evidence confirms that. Just direct the original poster to this forum, and we can all wrap them up in support and good advice. Don't let the ignorant wind you up. They are not worth it. Others will make their own minds up if we can just get them over onto this forum to look at alternatives. Well done.
No kidding! @snowbunny inspired me to get back on after 10 years of not even logging in and I really don't like it much. I've posted a couple pics of Brogan and shared some posts from friends with dog rescue groups, but I just find it so depressing. Mostly I see posts of dogs that need homes from around here (Spain), I guess because that's what I originally used FB to look for. Plus I don't really understand how it works so don't really know what I'm sharing with whom. Makes me afraid to do much other than post the occasional happy-fluffy pic and like other people's photos. On the negative training methods, I think it's a just a slow slog of trying to present the positive alternative and the results (i.e. your own dog). I don't belong to the online groups like you, but I get it so much here in Spain. Not with Brogan when he was alive because he was clearly well-trained, but with the fosters and dogs from the refuge I've walked, so much advice from strangers on how to control them and it is nearly always "just hang them on the leash and they will learn."
I did wonder whether we ought to launch a mass support for Helen on the Facebook thread (although I haven't seen it), but I'm sure it would be water off a duck's back. Rosie's right, though, it would be possible to influence open minds. Let's hope they find this forum!
TOTALLY agree with this. With some of the monstrous things that have been said to family members - children too - on Facebook, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Bullies charter and those 'how to deal with a pup' advisors just prove it.
