Starting clicker training

Discussion in 'Clicker Training' started by ohthatcat, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Sure, of course if you are using a lure to get a dog to sit and so on, of course fade the lure quickly because otherwise you can't get a dog to sit without a treat. :rolleyes:

    But there are lots of areas where people confuse a lure with a bribe and so quit using food (or toy) lures (or 'reverse lures' where food is used as both an offered reward and a distraction) far faster than then they should.

    For example: I wasted a HUGE amount of time trying to get a straight sit at heel by shaping when I should have lured for much longer, and even when I didn't get an incremental improvement still used the delivery of the treat as an incentive to swing the bum in (instead of out) on less ideal behaviour because that got me a better result next time.

    The placement of the delivery of the treat is just so much more important, I think.
     
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  2. ohthatcat

    ohthatcat Registered Users

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    I've caught myself doing this once in a while - then I see where her eyes are and I'm like DAMN lol.

    So, is a clicker a solution to end that bribery or no?

    Sunny
     
  3. Jojo83

    Jojo83 Registered Users

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    As far as I'm aware most of the members of the forum are 'pet owners', and that is not a dis-respectful term, not professional trainers. I know Emily's work very well and am happy to use it with clients but not many owners have expressed a need to train a behaviour that required 3 minutes of continous luring; if they do in the future I would be only to happy to assist a la Larlham
     
  4. Jojo83

    Jojo83 Registered Users

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    Such a common problem. I prefer not to work with a treat pouch but have a tub of treats on a surface out of reach of dog's and encourage people to mark the behaviour wait a second or two and then reach for the treat. After all the dog already knows a treat is coming by having got the marker :)
     
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  5. ohthatcat

    ohthatcat Registered Users

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    Maybe I should do that - it's hard because I wear the treat bag and it makes it so much easier. It's obvious that she knows when my hand is going for it, though!

    Am I sabotaging the effort or should the clicker mark the behavior? Now I'm unsure.

    Sunny
     
  6. edzbird

    edzbird Registered Users

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    The clicker should mark the behaviour. Why not add a variable delay after the click before dipping in your bag? I vary it between wearing a treat bag and having the treats set on the side.
     
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  7. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    I do this too :) x
     
  8. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    If you're not using a clicker or a marker just make sure you move your hands towards the treats only after you get the behaviour you cued.

    If you're using a clicker or marker make sure you move your hands towards the treats only after you clicked/marked.

    You don't need to delay getting a treat out - you just need to make sure you don't reach for the treat before the behaviour/click.

    Having the treats in a container away from you is a good thing to do though. It's important to use a marker in these circumstances though - something to tell the dog that they've met the criterion (aka have done what you wanted). You mark/click, then run together to get a treat (dogs usually love doing that).

    In classes we get handlers to hang their treat pouches on the fence.
     
  9. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    I don't always have treats on me as I really don't want to constantly smell of doggy treats :rolleyes: so if the door bell rings and Charlie barks I say "quiet" and he runs to the shelf where I have my treats with me trying to keep up :D, works well for that too :) x
     
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  10. ohthatcat

    ohthatcat Registered Users

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    I'd be afraid that they delay would cause them to "forget" what I was treating for - I thought it had to be in the moment? It seems like the click-wait-treat might be a good strategy so they're not just using you for food.

    Edit: Just saw that you can just do treats, but be very mindful of when that hand moves toward the bag. We're working on "off" and as soon as she jumps down she's jumping diagonally to the side of my hip where the treats are kept!!!

    Sunny
     
  11. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    There is no benefit to deliberately waiting for a period of time to give the treat after you have clicked, or to randomising the length of time on purpose. The click means that a treat is coming, and you don't want to disassociate it from treats at all. In fact you really really want the click to mean 'a treat is on its way asap'.

    Immediately moving towards the treat container after you click or mark is not the same as introducing a deliberate delay. The dog learns that the run to the treat container is all part of the treat ritual (and also, running with you is inherently fun for most dogs, so it is like an extra reinforcer). For the dog it isn't a delay as the treat delivery process has begun as soon as you both start moving towards the treat container.

    You can definitely just use treats without a marker or click, but you have to be able to deliver the treat at the exact moment when the dog is doing what you want. For some things this is easy - e.g. for lengthy behaviours like walking on a loose lead or heeling. For these things it is not hard to deliver a treat as the behaviour is occurring. But for some behaviours it is hard to deliver a treat as the behaviour is occurring - like behaviours that occur at a distance, or new behaviours that are very brief because you haven't built them up yet. For these things it is really valuable (I'd say essential) to use a marker word or clicker to pinpoint the exact moment when the dog does what you are looking for.
     
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