Stop ?

Discussion in 'Clicker Training' started by Jen, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Hi all.

    One of my daft questions again (I'm good at those) can you clicker train the stop whistle ?

    Clicker training is definitely the way to go with my two. They have responded really well to it. To be honest I'm amazed at how well it's worked.

    Over the last couple of weeks we've been clicker training the sit stay and walking to heel.

    They had already had 'traditional' training in these. They could both sit very well on command, I just had to develop the stay and train the release cue and they knew how to walk to heel, I've used the clicker to reinforce and help them focus.

    I'm very pleased with how they are progressing with the proofing of these and I think we are ready to start the next challenge ::)

    So can you clicker train the stop whistle and if yes how ?

    Thank you as always

    Jen :D
     
  2. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Stop ?

    My answer is I don't know Jen,I've been using the articles off the main site and Pippas videos with Rachael.
    We'd come to a dead stop on training while we were getting Dexter recovered and I was worried he'd have forgotten and we'd be back to square 1 but he plonked Hs bum down as soon as I blew and stayed while I walked on so we can hopefully move forward now.....or I can and Dex can keep his bum plonked down until I tell him otherwise! :D x
     
  3. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Stop ?

    I'm not a clicker trainer but I would have thought you could easily use a clicker for the early stages particularly if you're building your stop onto a sit. So first you sit by the side (easily clicked and rewarded as you have been doing), then you stay on the move while the dog sits but you're returning so C&T ok too and indeed whenever you're returning to your dog after asking him to put his bum on the ground I would think C&T would work.

    I think the challenge will come when you want the stop to be at some distance. At the moment as I build the distance I reward Riley for stopping with a retrieve or a tennis ball for him to catch, I don't see why I couldn't click before I gave him that reward though......it's just food is such a standard as the treat you might need to think of alternatives.

    Just my rambling thoughts :)
     
  4. pippa@labforumHQ

    pippa@labforumHQ Administrator

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    Re: Stop ?

    Hi Jen, you can clicker train any new behaviour or 'action' on the part of the dog.

    The clicker is simply an event marker, and it can be used to mark any specific event or action that occurs in your dog's world. Whether or not you need an event marker is a different matter. It usually depends on how much scope there is for confusion. :)

    As a 'stop' is actually a development of the 'sit' it isn't exactly a new behaviour, but an event marker can still be used to reinforce the proofing process and the new concepts involved (distance, speed etc)

    I use a verbal event marker 'good' for my early stop whistle training at heel, though I sometimes 'free shape' a stop with a clicker for spaniels. The difference is largely for practical reasons (only two hands) so whenever a lead is involved, I am more likely to use a verbal marker.
     
  5. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Stop ?

    This week I'm trying to do something similar - clicker training come and sit on my left hand side facing forwards - to get speed and repetition I'm walking, stopping, changing my position in relation to the dog, walking, stopping. It's working. So far.....apart from he hasn't quite got that it must be the left hand side and keeps forgetting. So we have a few false starts.
     
  6. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Stop ?

    Thank you everybody.

    I figured that technically anything can be clicker trained I was wondering how practical it would be for the sit stop. Is clicker training ment for close up training?

    Our sit stay is now very good and I'm thinking the sit stop is a development of that. The way I was thinking of doing it was to build up sitting at a distance with verbal and hand signals. Start with just a few steps away command sit return C&T. How far away can a dog hear a click?

    Once sitting down at a distance to verbal and hand I'd then introduce the whistle. I guess once that has been proofed at a reasonable distance they will understand what the peep means so greater distance can then be proofed without the click. I guess I'm teaching them peep means sit with the C&T. Once that's established I can work on the distance bit.

    Does that make sense and would that work? (I think that's similar to what you suggested Barbara) Is it a reasonable clicker training exercise to achieve results or am I going to confuse us all? ???
     
  7. pippa@labforumHQ

    pippa@labforumHQ Administrator

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    Re: Stop ?

    In a way, yes, because adding distance is part of the proofing process and the main role of the clicker is in establishing a behaviour, rather than in proofing it (though you can use it in proofing).
     
  8. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Stop ?

    Thank you Pippa

    Can I ask then how do you proof distance ?

    With the sit stay I followed the kikopup video. She uses the clicker to proof (I think ???) the release cue.
    For example proofing for distance she moves away from the dog different distances returns C&T, as long as the dog remains sat obviously. Proofing for a distraction she creates the distraction C&T the dog for not moving.

    From the different things I've read and watched Im assuming there are different methods of clicker training? As long as I'm consistent and C&T the behaviour I want presumably it should work ? As long as I don't get confused !!!!! ???
     
  9. pippa@labforumHQ

    pippa@labforumHQ Administrator

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    Re: Stop ?

    I create lots of little training exercises where the dog is placed in a situation where it naturally wants to stop in a particular area, often because it thinks that there is going to be a dummy there. See the 'missing retrieve' video link below. After sufficient preparation (see the last link below) this usually results in a 'stop' which I immediately reward with a dummy throw.

    You don't need an event marker at this point. ( In fact there is some evidence that an event marker can even delay learning in situations where a very high value reward can be immediately provided for a response to a known cue - but that is a whole other argument :) )

    I use exercises like the stolen retrieve, and the missing retrieve. You can bring these as close to the handler as you need in order to achieve success, and them move them further and further away. More info and a kikopup link here.

    Before I do this, I always teach the dog to whistle sit from a run first. You can do this with a clicker in the garden, or at heel like this

    Teaching a stop whistle 'retriever style' like this requires that the dog has reached the necessary point in training, and the stop whistle training is built entirely around the retrieve. You can find more info on that here

    Another way is to use the 'obedience trainer's approach using place markers and then fading them as in the kikopup link.

    There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way, it is a question of creating an automatic response by rehearsing the behaviour in a way that sets the dog up for success and then gradually extending the distances you set for the exercise.

    Hope that makes sense. Perhaps Rachael will comment on the obedience trainers perspective on this skill.
     
  10. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Stop ?

    Thank you Pippa and thank you for all the links. I know how busy you must be so thank you for taking the time.

    I'll start my training first. From all the links think I've got a lot to do. ;D
     

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