Supplements with Raw diet?.

Discussion in 'Raw Feeding' started by Keithmac, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    Hello all, very new to all this as Honey is our first dog and only 10 weeks old!.

    She's been brought up on raw food so we plan to carry on, normally mince chicken or beef with vegies for one or two meals and half a chicken carcass or wings etc for tea.

    Just worried about all the vitamins and especially minerals.

    Our breeder says he can get his mix of chicken and bonemeal but its in bulk so I'm going to buy a freezer and run electric to the shed eventually.

    For now should we be adding a supplement to Honey's diet or are the vegtables and bones enough?.
     
  2. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    I would read up on calcium requirements (specifically the ratio of calcium to phosphorous) for a puppy. Unless you are feeding a "prey model" diet, which it doesn't sound like you are, then you will absolutely need to supplement with calcium for healthy bone development. The most digestible form is calcium citrate, which you can buy as a powder to sprinkle over his food. You have to be a bit careful, though, as it's possible to give too much calcium and, as noted, the ratio of Ca : P.
    I would avoid bonemeal, which can contain high levels of heavy metals and fluoride, which can contribute towards osteosarcoma.
    If you feed enough bones (not weight bearing from larger mammals; think chicken, rabbit, turkey and small bones such as ribs from larger mammals), then you shouldn't have to worry about calcium supplementation. I've not fed a fully raw or home-cooked diet to a puppy, although all my dogs have enjoyed raw meat and bones from a very young age. Hopefully someone with more experience will chirp up.

    I would recommend reading the two books Dog Food Logic by Linda P Case and Canine Nutrigenomics by W Jean Dodds.
     
  3. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    Thanks, will have to see how much bone she eats and go frpm there.

    Reluctant to go for dry food (kibble?) and heard you can't really do half and half.

    Will have a read tonight after I've fenced off round the shed to make it dog safe!.
     
  4. Karen

    Karen Registered Users

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    I would find a good vet who is positive about raw feeding (not all are!!), or get advice from a nutritionist. I did this when we first moved to raw feeding with Poppy; she looked at exactly what we were feeding and worked out a feeding plan to make sure she was getting all the necessary nutrients - it was quite complicated to make sure everything was covered, and to simplify things I use a supplementary powder which contains B-vitamins, zinc, copper, iron, iodine, and so on. The main thing though is to work up to a wide range of different foods - fish, chicken, eggs, beef, lamb, pork, duck, venison, and so on, with natural yogurt, oil, and vegetables.

    I have fed half and half for years now, by the way. It works for us!
     
  5. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    I also did half and half with mine with no problems. I've moved away from kibble (except as some for training treats) and now feed a combination of raw and home cooked.
     
  6. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    I highly recommend a prey model to ensure a balance of nutrients. So, either feed an entire animal like a whole rabbit or chicken, or feed the separate parts to make up the whole. If you feed the liver and various other organs, as well as a variety of protein sources and body parts, you’ll ensure good nutrient intake. Variety is key.

    I’m not keen on supplements for various reasons, one being that they’re not regulated so you really have no idea what you’re feeding your dog. At best you’re feeding a harmless powder. At worst it’s something dangerous. I’ve just listened to a podcast out of Australia where supplements are a massive business, and where illegal steroids are added to make the exercise supplements appear to be amazing. It’s scary. Feeding whole food is far safer imo.

    Also make sure you’re feeding a high quality, fit for human consumption meat. It is difficult to ensure high quality - what do we know of antibiotic use or other added chemicals, but I guess we try our best.
     
  7. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    Thanks all for the replies, will have a look at the prey model as well.

    She has had beef mince/ raw egg (with shell) and veg for dinner and tea, half a chicken carcass for breakfast.

    Seems happy enough but needs to be right as she's a lot of growing to do!.
     
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  8. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    She made short work of three chicken legs for tea, she eats better than I do!.
     
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  9. Stacia

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    Not everyone agrees, but beware of giving too many raw eggs as the white inhibits the uptake of Biotin. I knew of a sickly Red Irish Setter due to this.
     
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  10. MF

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    My understanding is that this is only a problem if eating just the raw whites. If you eat the whole egg including the yolk, it balances out. And cooked whites don’t have this effect - the inhibitor is rendered ineffective by heat.

    Was the Setter eating whole eggs or only raw whites? And what does a biotin deficiency look like?
     
  11. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    Yes, the Setter had whole raw eggs, he became thin and weak, he looked a sorry sight. Cooked egg whites are fine.
     
  12. MF

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    It seems odd that whole raw eggs can do this. Was he tested for biotin deficiency? Sounds like he’d have to eat a lot of raw egg whites with no yolk. Any other contributing factors to his ill health?
     
  13. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    She has a few full raw eggs a week, we've had to adust her collar today as she's a growing pup!.
     
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  14. Roux & Gumbo

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    HERE IS MY PROBLEM I AM STRUGGLING WITH!! HELP IS NEEDED.
    Due to severe allergies and quite a few tests being run. I haveto make my dogs food as well.
    Here is my problem. Gumbo can have 3 meats, beef, venison or kangaroo and that's it! She can not have pork, chicken, fish,or anything else. She is limited to fruits and vegetables as well. I have 4 pages of foods that she is unable to eat. I am looking for a hypo allergenic vitamin and not having any luck due to the berries, oils, flour, yeast, peanut butter fish oils, etc that she is highly allergic to. Any suggestions?
     
  15. Keithmac

    Keithmac Registered Users

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    Does sound like a very tricky problem you have there!.

    We went to vets for jabs on Monday and he put a massive downer on the whole raw food diet, fortunately Honey is doing great on it so we'll carry on!.

    I think without some fish in there you'll struggle to get some essential vitamins, and for Honey whole chicken legs (bone and all) are part of her calcium intake.

    Tricky situation really but if you think Gumbo can't get all he needs through Raw maybe worth considering premixed Kibble with beef etc as an extra?.
     

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