How would you go about proofing the stop whistle? Willow and Shadow both have pretty nifty stops since I've only been doing it for a short time, but I've only used it in situations where there's no distractions and I'm the most interesting thing around. I know that I wouldn't be able to stop them if they saw something to chase, or caught a whiff of a good smell etc, so I don't want to try and break the work I've done so far. Having said that, when we're on walks together, I have been successful in stopping them both together, so they can manage the distraction of the other dog being there. Anyhow, I would like to progress with proofing and I'm not sure of the best way to go about it. This picture on the Positive Gundogs Facebook page of the 7.5 month boy who was stopped just before a rabbit has blown my mind!
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle I used retrieving. Running in and steady retrieves. A ball flying through the air is a big distraction for my dogs then the reward is the fetch. ;D
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle So would you stop the dog during a retrieve? On the way out and/or in? Would you reward the stop, or let the dog finish the retrieve (which, in itself is rewarding)? My strongest reward to a stop is chasing something (a tennis ball, a treat or me).
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle I first built up the strength of the stop whistle by powerful rewards (which is a ball for Charlie, thrown as soon as his bum hits the floor, and tug, and whipit - until I had a long history of fun for stop whistles). I then had him on a line and at a distance from all sorts of things - people, dogs....I did this at training, with people and dogs who would co-operate. Then I arranged set ups with my dog walker holding a ball, moving a ball, bouncing a ball, kicking a ball - Charlie got rabbit skin from me if he stopped. Once my placeboards were powerful, I could use those - the boards overcome distractions in themselves because of the history of reinforcement on them. So placeboard plus stop whistle (back then blow my stop) when I introduced distance and distractions. And so on. We practice around squirrels and rabbits at the Common, and the first time he flushed a pheasant - actually, he flushed a load of pheasants all in one go, he stopped on his whistle. This is going to sound really sad now....but we flush crows on the Common. We don't have any other birds to practice with...the crows are completely unimpressed and usually only fly a few metres before they land again. Here he is, with a "flushed" crow going about his business behind him. :-[ :-[ :-[ ;D ;D ;D Ah, such is pet gundoggery on Wimbledon Common! ;D ;D ;D ;D It keeps us out of mischief.... crow by julieandcharlie, on Flickr
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle Haha, poor Charlie, he doesn't look quite sure about it all! I'd forgotten about the long line; that could definitely be a useful tool. In the meantime, you're probably right about just continuing to make it super rewarding in the meantime. I just got a bit carried away by the picture!
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle I stop my dogs on the way out for a retrieve. Sometimes I will just pretend to throw. This helps early on in the training because I found they came to a stop naturally when they realised the ball hadn't gone over their heads. I used this natural slowing down to practise stop, spin around to look at me and sit. You can only do it a couple of times before they catch on though, at least with my dogs :, so I had to mix the stop ones in with lots of real retrieves. I mainly used the release to get the retrieve as the reward for the stop especially for scout who loves to retrieve. To begin with for Scott I would go and give him a treat then send him for the retrieve as Scott is less interested in retrieving more interested in food. Once Scott's retrieving desire was higher his reward was the retrieve and a treat when he brought it back.
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle [quote author=Jen link=topic=10404.msg153217#msg153217 date=1427802939] I stop my dogs on the way out for a retrieve. Sometimes I will just pretend to throw. This helps early on in the training because I found they came to a stop naturally when they realised the ball hadn't gone over their heads. I used this natural slowing down to practise stop, spin around to look at me and sit. You can only do it a couple of times before they catch on though, at least with my dogs :, so I had to mix the stop ones in with lots of real retrieves. I mainly used the release to get the retrieve as the reward for the stop especially for scout who loves to retrieve. To begin with for Scott I would go and give him a treat then send him for the retrieve as Scott is less interested in retrieving more interested in food. Once Scott's retrieving desire was higher his reward was the retrieve and a treat when he brought it back. [/quote] I also use a retrieve for a good stop when out on a retrieve. But I use either a different retrieve, e.g. a dummy to the side or I recall first and then re-send the dog for the dummy I originally sent it for. I did a little video clip of that this morning. It's uploading to YouTube at the moment and I will post it later. I want the dog to learn that the original retrieve is not what I want when I stop it. It might or might not be later though, that's why I do either a re-direction or a recall. Hope that makes sense. Probably clearer once the video clip is up.
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle This is the little video clip on stop whistle. https://youtu.be/iVZN2rgWCXk
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle Oh, that's brilliant, thanks Heidrun! We're not quite at that level yet..... ;D ;D ;D
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle That's great heidrun thank you. I'll have a go at that this afternoon. Hopefully the gale force wind won't be too off putting. :. Your first retrieve, the redirected one, that was casting to the right ? I need to do more work on my casting training I'm afraid it's slipped a bit. :-\ I love caddie's little twirl for her c&t. ;D
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle Yes, that's a re-direction to the right with hand signal and a verbal cue. She is a bit of a 'twirler', always has been.
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle That's SO good. I'm going to show Monty so he knows what to do! And I think you'll find those aren't just any old twirls, and are actually very well rehearsed piaffes
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle Was that a blind to the right, or did she know it was there? Just thinking of how to set up my exercise! I envy you the open field, I only have commons to train on and you can bet your bottom dollar, although I haven't seen a living soul for 30 minutes, the moment I put a blind out, someone appears
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle It was actually a blind, Stacia, but I reckon she had already clocked it on her outrun to the other dummy. The grass is very short and the white dummy is quite visible. Set it up as simple as possible to start with. Stopping and redirecting on to a blind should be left to last.
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10404.msg153190#msg153190 date=1427797651] So would you stop the dog during a retrieve? On the way out and/or in? Would you reward the stop, or let the dog finish the retrieve (which, in itself is rewarding)? My strongest reward to a stop is chasing something (a tennis ball, a treat or me). [/quote] Going back to your question. I never stop a dog when it is coming back with a retrieve, never ever. Stopping out on the retrieve I only start when I know that dog is a dead keen retriever and even then I do it very sparingly as it can cause all sorts of problems. I reward the stop with a thrown tennis ball at the beginning.
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle This is what I do with Murffi who is not a natural born retriever like my other spaniels. So just ambling through the field I blow the stop whistle every so often, sometimes when he is heading away from me and sometimes when he has already turned back towards me. The click is also the end of the exercise and he is free to get up and come and get his treat. He does get it wrong at one stage and carries on running towards me, no big deal, it just means no click & treat. He also managed to squeeze in a cheeky little roll in something. : Even though the field looks bare there are plenty of distractions in the form of scent. Lots of bunnies and quite a few pheasants live in this field. It was also very windy here today which is another huge distraction for dogs. https://youtu.be/3ijCO5Pub0Y
Re: Tactics for proofing stop whistle That was really good to watch Heidrun ☺️ I've been doing some blinds with Harley and also done some re-direction. She is a very keen retriever so am glad I've watched this clip if the gorgeous Caddie - it has given me a few things to work on
