Hi, I have read the article on the site about aggression but I don't think it fits our situation so I'm looking for some help please......? At dog training last night, one of the small, excitable dogs got loose and charged at my 8 month old pup; I think she just wanted to play but she was over the top excited. Rio (my pup) was off lead, waiting for me to send her after a dummy, and reacted to the other dog by pinning her and giving her a good telling off. This all happened at my feet, so I pulled her away and she instantly stopped. The spaniel got up unhurt, avoided capture and charged at another dog in the class in the same manner. The instructor warned me that I need to stop this reactive behaviour quickly so it doesn't become a habit; Rio should look to me to control the situation, not take matters into her own hands. This is completely out of character, she meets new dogs daily and has never reacted like this before. I understand what I'm being told but have no idea how to achieve it? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you! Tors & Rio
I don't know how other forum members will respond but for me Rio responded in a perfectly acceptable manner when another dog starts leaping all over her. I certainly would not call it a reactive behaviour and she certainly should not need you to resolve every situation - what if you are on a walk and Rio is away from you when a dog jumps at her or won't leave her alone? For me the trainer should actually be having words with the small excitable dog's owner! Dogs need to learn manners as to what is and isn't acceptable to another dog and the best teacher is another dog telling them off.
I read your post, then went away to think about it , my reply would have been the same as above . I also think that where dummies are involved , very driven dogs become possessive and quite cross if some hooligan interrupts their training . I remember years ago, when Sam was quite young, he interrupted a serious training session on the moors , he got told off by the dog in training and I was mortified at Sam , and that's the way it should be, not the other way round
I don't think Rio reacted in an acceptable manner if she pinned another dog down - I think an acceptable telling off is entirely verbal, and when given by a confident well socialised dog does not involve any physical contact with another dog. We all come across all sorts of untrained excitable dogs that rush up to our dogs (99% of young pet Labradors for example) and I do not think it's acceptable for a dog to react by pinning another dog down. In an average busy park where I live, I can expect 10s of dogs a walk to dash up to mine - much to my intense annoyance but even so, I expect my dog to remain friendly. My training expectations on him are to ignore the other dog completely, but that very much is a work in progress! How you should tackle this through training though is a bit difficult. It seems likely that Rio was scared of this dog rushing up and this caused her to react in the way she did. Yet if it's not something that has ever happened before, there isn't a lot to go on really.,,,, I think I'd expect a lot more guidance from my trainer than you seem to have. Can you go back to her and ask her some more questions about what she thinks you need to be doing?
I've got a lot to learn about dog body language and interaction but my rule of thumb is its ok for a dog to tell another one off but when the pushy dog backs off the dog doing the telling off should let it go. So a telling off is fine but they need to stop or I'd step in My lab looked sideways at a friends spaniel from several metres away. This dog has had to tell off some overly affectionate dogs in the past so she steamed over, told Riley exactly where he stood (pretty much nowhere) and then went back and we all got on with some lovely training. No major dramas but she'd made her point and moved on. Another spaniel went to put him in his place and Riley backed off but the spaniel kept going so his owner stepped in to say enough.
Apologies to the OP , until I read Julies reply , I had not noticed the pinning down . I find it totally acceptable for one dog to tell off an annoying interrupter , most times this is by way of a growl or even snarl but not a direct attack , usually just a lot of noise, which I think is fine but a pinning down is maybe too fervent , especially from a pup of eight months . At least you stepped in and stopped the behaviour immediately .
We have had to cope with lots of little dogs running up and barking and jumping all over Harley (23 months old). Generally she will ignore them, but if they continue for more than a minute she will verbally tell them off. Once she accidently knocked one of the dogs over as it was so small. She turned towards the dog that was jumping all over her and knocked him over. She then verbally told it off. Straight after Harley ignored the dog and luckily the dog went to its owner. It is difficult to get the right balance, but I do leave it to Harley as to when she has had enough. I do sometimes ask owners to remove their dog as some dogs don't stop! Tonight on my walk, we came around a corner to two tiny daschunds. As soon as they seen Harley then ran over and kept jumping and barking in her face. Harley tried to walk off, but they followed. I asked the owners to get their dogs and was told 'they're only barking, they aren't hurting'. I replied by saying if Harley got in their face and barked that I'm sure they would intervene as she is much bigger - they agreed, but still didn't do anything!!! Some small dogs are allowed to get away with behaviours just because of their size!
There are trainers who specialise in dogs who need some help with their social skills. It may give you some peace of mind to discuss this with a qualified behaviourist. It's terribly hard to help with this sort of thing on the Internet
I think that the pinning down might have been a bit full-on but the rest wouldn't worry me. Because of the pinning down I would do as Barbara suggested and have a chat with a good behaviourist. It never hurts to get onto things before they become a problem, even if they're were never really going to become a problem. I think the little dog owner has more of a training issue than you do though!
It's basically a juvenile lack of impulse control. So lots of work on impulse control around food would be my first route, extending this to impulse control around other dogs. Watch out for potential resource guarding which may have helped to shorten Rio's fuse - the resource being working with you or the dummy she was prevented from fetching. In future I would slip a hand through her collar (yes, I'd always leave a soft collar on a pup) so you can lead her away from any rude behaviour before she comes apart. Whatever your trainer may suggest, do not entertain anything which Rio would perceive as punishment, which only makes things worse.
I think asking any dog, let alone an 8 month old puppy NOT to react to an onslaught is a very big ask. Rio gave voice to her opinion at being attacked (even if it was only in play). I can appreciate concerns about her pinning down her attacker, but her options were limited. I once read that if your dog is not allowed to give voice it's options are limited and it is more likely to move on to biting, nipping etc. Sadly, many people with small dogs find their misbehaviour amusing and make no effort to train them. However, if we applied the same laxity our bigger dogs they would soon be labelled "dangerous". All this is said with the caveat that I know that training isn't an instant thing and they can transgress whilst under traing.
Thank you everyone for your advice. Beverley she does have impulse control issues - not with food but she is "hot" for the dummy and I'm doing lots of steady work but she loves chasing after that dummy so this rings true. More steady work for us. I will also speak to the trainer again because I agree that she needs to be able to express herself, but maybe with a bit less enthusiasm and I'm not sure where the line is. I regularly walk her with 11 other dogs (not all at once), and I've never had any issues, she plays with them if they allow it and leaves them alone if they aren't interested so this came out of the blue and I guess could be something I need to step on, or maybe a storm in a teacup! As always, it's great to have other opinions - thank you!
I wouldn't worry about it. Put it down to experience. Rio is only 8month old. Just a puppy. If it happen to every dog she met that would be different. What did the instructor say to the other dogs owner?
I agree with Molly and Cath it may well be a one off incident and if she is serious about her dummy retrieving that could be the reason for her behaviour. I think rushing off to an expensive behaviourist isn't really necessary but obviously if the behaviour continued it could worth a thought. I think your trainer was wrong to blame you though ad the other dog(s) should be on lead when it's your dogs turn. My rescue dog Charlie had had enough of a very over exhuberant young Labrador that just wouldn't leave him alone, in the end Charlie stood over him, this Labrador doesn't behave like this towards Charlie any more. I was told that was perfectly acceptable behaviour by an experienced Labrador owner on this forum that I have great respect for.
I remember as a child with our first Labrador girl, who was the gentlest dog possible, being harassed by a small terrier outside a local shop. When she finally got bored with the dog pestering her she picked it up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him away. The dog immediately left her alone. She also did the same with my cousin's Jack Russell girl. The Jack Russell learnt some manners and couldn't wait to get to our girl whenever they came to us, which was every week, but she never ever pushed the boundaries again. I think sometimes we worry too much about our dog's behaviour with other dogs when it becomes apparent that they understand each other with out any problems
I'm sure youre pup will be fine she's only 8 months and she is just learning too. sometimes other dogs need to be told off by other dogs for their rudness. No pup was hurt and maybe the other pup might learn something. s
