The surgeon wants to see Charlie "on the thin side of average" by mid Feb before his operation. We went for our weekly weigh in at the vet's today. We're at 28.5kg. Just a tad lighter than last time. Which the nurse said was fine, as Charlie is still growing. She had a good look at him, and said we are spot on in terms of a good body condition and if he wasn't having the op she'd have said he was perfect, but we'll have to reduce a bit more to get to thin. . She says lots of Choc boys have to watch their weight, they get podgy easily. So Charlie's kibble is staying the same, at 175g, but his 10 sea biscuits a day has got to go. . And we have to go back next week to be weighed again. If we're not making progress, we'll have to switch to a weight reduction food to make sure Charlie is getting all the nutrients he needs as apparently it's not good to just keep reducing normal kibble for a growing boy. On the up side, there were just a couple of people in the waiting room and they weren't rushed, so we stayed and did some click for calm training as dogs came in and out. Which went well.
Re: Thin side of average I know Charlie was not impressed by carrots as a treat but it might be worth trying him with small cubes of apple. Bess will work for these especially if they are kept in a bag with a sea biscuit. Only problem is they have to be prepared just before a walk/training session. Alice
Re: Thin side of average Good idea - I dropped the veggies when I thought they had given him an upset tummy, but it turned out to be a bug. He likes strawberries and raspberries...
Re: Thin side of average I know how hard keeping a dog on a diet is, but it pays of in the end. Ice cubes make good treats, especially if they have a few pieces of kibble frozen in them, puzzle loved them in summer. If he likes strawberries and raspberries why not freeze them and then give them to him as a treat, as they are frozen they will last longer, you could even put them in a blender along with some kibble and and freeze it in a kong, that would keep him busy for a while. Could you not cut down his sea biscuits to 5 and cut them in half so he still has 10 pieces, or quarter them so he has 20 pieces. You could also make him some low fat veggie treats yourself that he could have instead of sea biscuits.
Re: Thin side of average good boy on his click for calm! Brodick loves cucumber....loves it! and zero calories. he will train for bits of it, and sometimes I get a very large cucumber, cut it into thick long stips, and freeze it....seems as happy with that as a frozen kibble kong, though Brods will eat anything with great gusto...
Re: Thin side of average All great ideas - I'll go stock up. I had dismissed the veggie ideas when I originally blamed them for the upset tum, but I don't think veggies had anything to do with it in the end. We need every last bit of kibble for our walks - and we've just used a load. We walked to heel passed the recycling truck, 6 men throwing things around, cans rolling down the street, and loads of people running out with Christmas trees and crates of bottles. Yay! Gosh, it's a struggle this dog packed full of energy and no roast beef allowed training! I'm happy with small things now...
Re: Thin side of average Have you considered using treats such as thrive (http://www.thrivepetfoods.com/home/) barker and barker (http://www.barkerandbarkertreats.co.uk/) which are low in fat and can be cut up into small pieces or come in very small pieces, i have used both and would reccomend them, they get barley very interested so would be great for an excitable puppy
Re: Thin side of average Thanks Annabelle - I have used the thrive ones before, they are good. One problem the nurse mentioned to me was cutting down the kibble any further to allow for treats other than kibble though. This is because he is only on 50% of the volume recommended now, and she wants to make sure his nutrition stays balanced. I do think there is something in the idea of switching to a specific weight reducing food. I'll do some research about that.
Re: Thin side of average Better than barley, he was and still is on just over 1/4 of his recommended daily allowance, plus a set amount of treats used for training per day with the occasional extra treat here and there. He is on less now as he is not as active so he gets closer to 100g of kibble and 1/2 can of wet food, rather than 150g kibble and 1/2 can wet food. I understand what you mean, but what we found that putting barley on light kibble we had to feed him more of it as he was hungrier and lost weight rapidly, so we had to go back to normal kibble as it was a lot cheaper to feed him on.
Re: Thin side of average [quote author=Puppypal link=topic=3819.msg43580#msg43580 date=1388412060] I understand what you mean, but what we found that putting barley on light kibble we had to feed him more of it as he was hungrier and lost weight rapidly, so we had to go back to normal kibble as it was a lot cheaper to feed him on. [/quote] Which brand did you try? Was it just the cost that made you switch back (that's important, but it wouldn't be for long hopefully, so I wouldn't mind for a bit)? Charlie is hungry, for sure, which creates a problem with him scavenging on walks (not good in London, just passed a dreadful upset tum event. :-\
Re: Thin side of average Hi Julie I was just wondering what kibble you feed? You've just explained though that he is only fed 50% of the recommended ration which makes more sense. My two are on 450g a day each. On the feeding guide I could go up to 600 but I know they don't need that much. I go on what comes out and how they look. Is he still on puppy food? That obviously has more calories than adult. I think you said he was 9 months. The food I feed recommend changing to adult before they are fully grown to slow the last growing phase and it can also help calm them down. I know your waiting for him to finish growing so he can have his op but I don't think it would slow his growth down that much now. It's just a thought you might have already switched. Jen
Re: Thin side of average [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3819.msg43583#msg43583 date=1388412715] [quote author=Puppypal link=topic=3819.msg43580#msg43580 date=1388412060] I understand what you mean, but what we found that putting barley on light kibble we had to feed him more of it as he was hungrier and lost weight rapidly, so we had to go back to normal kibble as it was a lot cheaper to feed him on. [/quote] Which brand did you try? Was it just the cost that made you switch back (that's important, but it wouldn't be for long hopefully, so I wouldn't mind for a bit)? Charlie is hungry, for sure, which creates a problem with him scavenging on walks (not good in London, just passed a dreadful upset tum event. :-\ [/quote] we tried a couple just to see if it was a certain brand, but no difference. We tried iams, james wellbeloved and proplan (only because he won a free bag of it at a show)
Re: Thin side of average It's royal Canin lab junior, it says to feed until 15 months. The daily amounts are 257 - 415g for adult weight of 25 - 40kg. I reckon Charlie will be about 32 - 35 kgs when grown, so that would be 360g of food, and Charlie is on 175g, just under half the guideline. I've heard before about swapping to adult food earlier, before the manufacturers recommend it - I'm a bit wary of this though. Not that I have a huge confidence in the food manufacturers, but does anyone know of studies or references that give some evidence this is a good thing to do?
Re: Thin side of average Or I could try raw - not sure I want to add that complication right now though.
Re: Thin side of average I put my Lab on adult kibble when he was 6 months old, he is now almost two years and in fine condition. There is thought that puppies don't need puppy/junior food and could be fed on adult food straight away. Years ago when I had dogs, there was only adult food and all my dogs, except one who was epileptic, lived well into old age. References I feel would be written by dog food companies who would have a vested interest, but you may find something which isn't affiliated and just pure research.
Re: Thin side of average If you were to switch to an adult food in order to reduce calories, would there be an appropriate supplement that Charlie could take to catch up on some of the other 'goodies' in a puppy food, e.g. the calcium and phosphorus if it were necessary??? A question for a vet, perhaps... If you switched to raw, you'd still have all the treat issues to contend with. Clare
Re: Thin side of average [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3819.msg43588#msg43588 date=1388414556] Or I could try raw - not sure I want to add that complication right now though. [/quote] I would highly recommend raw, since puzzle has been on it the change in her is amazing, her coat is much shinier and softer, her breath smells much better, she is on the normal side rather than the chubby side of weight now, she looks skinnier and healthier, we have had no yummy upsets since we moved her onto raw, her poo's are much easier to pick up, she drinks less, she gets to satisfy her chewing habits with a bone every evening as part of her meal, it is costing us less money to feed her raw, there is no need for specific puppy or adult food everything is the same. We can recommend natural instinct to you and you get £10 of your first order.
Re: Thin side of average Thanks Annabelle - I'll look at that some more (had a look at the website, it does look interesting). I'm a bit doubtful - Charlie doesn't get any meals in a bowl, I use all his food on walks and for training. I'm not sure how I'd do that feeding raw...but I will have a look, it looks good. I'll order some of the bones at least.
Re: Thin side of average It's a difficult decision. Im assuming you give Charlie only half ration because he puts weight on easily? If he was on less calories he'd be able to have more so wouldn't feel hungry if you think he does now and also you'd get more training kibble. I think if it was me I'd ask the vet/vet nurse about it. You could probably just ring and speak to the nurse. It's like Clare said does he need the extra calcium, phosphorus etc or because he'd be getting more quantity would it be the same. Does a full ration of adult have the same nutrients as half a ration of junior? I'm not sure how it works. Sorry I might have just made that more complicated. :
Re: Thin side of average [quote author=Jen link=topic=3819.msg43602#msg43602 date=1388423737] I'm assuming you give Charlie only half ration because he puts weight on easily? [/quote] He has always had less than the recommended amount, yes, he gets podgy quickly. I feel compelled to say he has never been fat, I've always kept it pretty much under control. But if i take my eye off the quantities, he starts looking rounded very, very quickly. I've just been mulling over that his 0.5kg weight loss this week, does follow his tummy upset when he didn't eat for six days... :-\ When he was on full exercise, about 1.5 - 2 hours off lead a day, 250g kept him in good shape and I didn't really have to worry too much about training treats on top. It's been cut down to 175g as his exercise was cut to lead walks. I will ask the vet, or the nurse. I wonder if I should find a nutritionist though - the vet just said keep cutting his food down until he loses weight. There does come a point where that's impractical though.
