So, somehow I stumbled upon a golden retriever forum...much like this but this lab forum is waaay better Okay, I might be partial. I came across a reply that was really eye opening for me on training : Thoughts?
Re: This is GOLDEN! Well, definitely I agree with this person. All behaviour occurs for a reason and has a motivation behind it. If you want to change it you have to understand that motivation. And then make some other (more desirable) behaviour more motivating
Re: This is GOLDEN! It's a bit "flowery", but it seems quite sensible. You don't often see people talking about "learning styles" and dogs as individuals, but I'm sure good trainers know this - how to train taking into account the individual dog. Punishment teaches the dog not to repeat the bad behaviour where he can get caught - very true. Contextual cues - these are powerful, yes, and can be used to good advantage in training.
Re: This is GOLDEN! My first thought was, I hope English isn't this person's first language, otherwise I feel for the children she will be teaching But other than me being so pernickety, she is, of course, talking sense. Every child, like every dog, is an individual with their individual driving desires and individual histories.
Re: This is GOLDEN! [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10476.msg154694#msg154694 date=1428303120] My first thought was, I hope English isn't this person's first language, otherwise I feel for the children she will be teaching [/quote] Hehehe..... I almost wrote this ;D
Re: This is GOLDEN! I very much agree with this I do a very similar job to this person and do a lot around learning styles with young people. I've never really thought about it in relation to dogs, but I suppose we do adjust our teaching methods to our individual dogs - tone of voice (if I have a happy voice, Harley will do anything I ask, if I'm a bit stern she will quite often refuse to cooperate), hand signals (Harley responds well to hand signals over voice), body language (need to keep this relaxed) etc
Re: This is GOLDEN! [quote author=Oberon link=topic=10476.msg154702#msg154702 date=1428305729] [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10476.msg154694#msg154694 date=1428303120] My first thought was, I hope English isn't this person's first language, otherwise I feel for the children she will be teaching [/quote] Hehehe..... I almost wrote this ;D [/quote] Thought that too.. ;D I am not sure about learning styles so much...but yes they have different motivations, a big influence is their environment, and learning capability is largely determined by this, amongst other things of course.
Re: This is GOLDEN! I agree with the idea of what she says about "individualism" although I'm not sure how she intends to teach a class of say 30 children in an individual manner, particularly when having to meet certain standards with the students. I also agree about the relevenace of punishment, however I don't think her example is necessarily very good. How do you treat a child not wearing school uniform - make them take off the clothes they have on and walk around in their underwear or give them a detention which deprives them of a liitle time?
Re: This is GOLDEN! My Dad always said "motivation is everything". I agree. If we are not motivated it's very hard to get us to do anything - same for dogs. (Uniform is essential - it gives kids something to rebel against, something which doesn't actually matter at all)
Re: This is GOLDEN! [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=10476.msg154737#msg154737 date=1428312151] [quote author=Oberon link=topic=10476.msg154702#msg154702 date=1428305729] [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10476.msg154694#msg154694 date=1428303120] My first thought was, I hope English isn't this person's first language, otherwise I feel for the children she will be teaching [/quote] Hehehe..... I almost wrote this ;D [/quote] Thought that too.. ;D [/quote] Can I fourth that!? : Qualified by the fact I'm a newbie to all this... I would say, from what I know of people on this forum, we all train our dogs using an individualised approach when it comes to the details, but there are general principles which hold good in the majority of situations. I guess you could say the same about children... However, I'm less keen on drawing an analogy between children and dogs. They learn (and proof!) things in different ways... don't they!? :-\ You have to set children up to make moral choices of their own one day. For this, they'll have to be able to generalise, rationalise, have a concept of other minds, as well as factoring in deferred gratification. None of which a dog can do. Am I overthinking it!?!!
Re: This is GOLDEN! Well, I'm a teacher and - since Gypsy arrived - I have been treating the class more and more like pups erk! More worryingly, it really works! ;D 8) 'sit' 'wait' etc I have a chuckle with the class as they know I spend the rest of the week puppy walking - they get a helping of Gypsy's blog every Friday, like it or not.
Re: This is GOLDEN! I'm a teacher as well and I agree with the original post. I think everything learns differently, at different rates and excel at different things. I think that's a problem I've found with some dog training books. In an ideal world they would work but I read things and know my dogs won't do that or won't do it that way unles I do xyz. I think dog training gets easier once you know your dog. Teaching gets easier once you know your class and which ones to keep your eye on.
Re: This is GOLDEN! Mags, I'm just the same! "Sit" "Wait" with the hand gesture. My favourite for both Homer and the kids "look" while pointing to my nose! to get their attention. Then "goooood boy!" All my dyslexic children can spell "Homer" as his and appears in most Friday spelling dictations. He even came in to school for the "-er" spelling pattern.
Re: This is GOLDEN! I just need to keep trying, I guess but I do understand as I have been told, that Tiger will keep testing me until he is too old and set in his ways to as long as authority has not been established. It IS very hard when its a family dog and you aren't really granted any authority. I came to find the true meaning of authority as well. My mother leaves the food out and the only way she can get him to come to her is to get him on a leash -- in the house! He is allowed to jump on them and so he does so at the dog park as well. Today, he nearly got into a fight with a man's dog... who brought DONUTS to a dog park. His dog was guarding the food I guess. He bit me the other day when we were in an open, vacant baseball field and saw some bird stuff he was not supposed to eat. He knew I was stepping in his 'area', and he bit me drawing a tiny bit of blood, almost like a hang nail above my nail. When my mother does get around to feeding him whenever she would like, its hand fed and on a leash. He gets dragged by a leash and into the kennel in their room. My brother horse plays with him and whenever I tell them anything beneficial for him, I get ignored. I am realizing that being undermined will not have any success with tiger in the end. I have, however, learned so much for when I do move out and get my own dog under my rules and terms. EXERCISE, Rules/boundaries/limitations, consistency (that's the kicker) and LOVE is the formula. Although my dad did buy this dog for my mother ...I think what she truly wants is a child to take care of. What a learning experience. I will be so much more prepared with my own.
Re: This is GOLDEN! Oh TigersMom, you must be so frustrated with this situation. Tiger can't be too happy either. Can you suggest any training classes to your mum ?
Re: This is GOLDEN! The concept of 'testing' humans to find their limits just does not apply to dogs. They do not do this. Quite frankly, they are not smart enough. 'Testing' someone requires high level cognitive skills that dogs just do not have. Dogs do what they do to avoid what they don't like (hunger, isolation, pain) and get what they do like (food, company, fun, sniffs, comfort) - simple as that. Dogs are opportunists and hedonists. They are not plotting to take over your family. To think otherwise will be counterproductive in your training and in your relationship with your dog because you will be making training mistakes (and getting emotionally wound up about your dog) based on false assumptions. Also, dogs have absolutely no obligations to us whatsoever. No obligation to behave how we want or respond to a cue how we want. None. Zip. Zero.
Re: This is GOLDEN! I see Rachael has replied while I was typing, but I'll post anyway, although saying much the same thing. [quote author=TigersMom link=topic=10476.msg159668#msg159668 date=1430237861] I just need to keep trying, I guess but I do understand as I have been told, that Tiger will keep testing me until he is too old and set in his ways to as long as authority has not been established. [/quote] This isn’t what happens. Dogs don’t think like that. Tiger isn’t testing you, and he doesn’t understand anything about authority. Dogs are very simple. They learn things as explained in this article, and that’s all there is to it. http://totallydogtraining.com/how-dogs-learn/ [quote author=TigersMom link=topic=10476.msg159668#msg159668 date=1430237861] It IS very hard when its a family dog and you aren't really granted any authority. I came to find the true meaning of authority as well. My mother leaves the food out and the only way she can get him to come to her is to get him on a leash -- in the house! He is allowed to jump on them and so he does so at the dog park as well. Today, he nearly got into a fight with a man's dog... who brought DONUTS to a dog park. His dog was guarding the food I guess. He bit me the other day when we were in an open, vacant baseball field and saw some bird stuff he was not supposed to eat. He knew I was stepping in his 'area', and he bit me drawing a tiny bit of blood, almost like a hang nail above my nail. [/quote] There seems to be a lot going on with Tiger and food and difficulties in handling him in the house. Dogs want to keep food they have, and if you don’t want a dog to eat food he comes across outside, you have to train him not to, usually by teaching a “leave it” cue. But if Tiger has got anxious about getting or keeping food, trying to take it off him is not a good idea. This isn’t anything about you stepping in his area, it’s all about how Tiger has learned to be around food. [quote author=TigersMom link=topic=10476.msg159668#msg159668 date=1430237861] When my mother does get around to feeding him whenever she would like, its hand fed and on a leash. He gets dragged by a leash and into the kennel in their room. My brother horse plays with him and whenever I tell them anything beneficial for him, I get ignored. [/quote] It sounds very sad that Tiger is being dragged around. I hope you can find a way to help him, and have him treated more kindly.
Re: This is GOLDEN! I won't repeat what Rachael and Julie have written. Other than being sympathetic to your predicament (it must be very hard sharing a dog, I certainly find it to be) I did have one thought...... Could you get a stash of treats - really good stuff - hot dogs, cheese, cat food pouches etc and do some training with him. Ignore all the other stuff, do some tricks that no one else will ever ask him to do and therefore they can't undermine it. Charge a clicker and see what you can get. Then when you've had some fun together doing silly things you could try and make a dent in his recall in the house.....keep it fun, get him to find you in different rooms for awesome rewards. Maybe once your parents really see what can be achieved they might let you guide them more. Best of luck!
Re: This is GOLDEN! That's a really good idea from Barbara. I think, if you want to make Tiger's life happier, you have to lead by example and show your parents what can be done using positive methods. Tricks are a great place to start because they don't matter, so it gives you some practice in using the clicker but if something goes wrong, there's no problem. It will help improve your bond with him, too.
Re: This is GOLDEN! It seriously concerns me that this person is about to become a teacher - unless it is in a language that is not English...
