Hi, At our very first vet appointment at 8 weeks old, she spoke about neteuring Murphy at around 6 months (he's now just turned 5 months). I'm reading as much as I can about pros/cons and just can't decide what's the best thing to do. He's a great natured wee puppy, I want to keep him exactly as he is, I just don't know what's the right thing to do for him. I have jack who's 15 years old and had broxi (16 years, we lost him 4 months ago) and they were both neteured really young and are/were fantastic dogs. However nowadays with the internet etc there is much more informed choice, but for me this makes my decision much harder. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this, what you decided to do, I really am in a state of confusion and indecision. Many thanks for your time. Karen xxx
Re: Thoughts on castration It is, quite rightly, your decision - that's stating the blindingly obvious because it certainly isn't anyone else's! But what I mean by that is it's right you look into it carefully before making up your mind. For me, I'm in the keeping my boy intact camp - for now, until I have a problem where there is evidence that castration might solve it. My family always had boy dogs, and never castrated them. They weren't aggressive, didn't roam (we had good fences, as I have now), didn't mark in the house, and never got any girls into trouble. Against that history, I looked into the claimed health benefits and wasn't convinced. Plus, if my boy was any less aggressive than he is now, he'd be mush. I do think waiting until you know the adult personality of your dog is a consideration, at least.
Re: Thoughts on castration Whatever his personality is, I don't think that castration will change it. My first dog was very mild mannered and soft natured, both before and after the op. I wouldn't really worry too much about the personality aspects. For myself, I'd have a male dog desexed so I didn't have to worry about accidental pregnancy. Other people sometimes (rarely but sometimes) bring bitches on heat to public dog places (because they do not realise the bitch is on heat) and I just don't want to be involved in any resulting custody disputes My dog goes to the dog club, dog park, doggie playgroup and gets minded in house by other people. He is around other dogs a lot and is in the care of other people regularly. I just don't want them to have to be vigilant about his interactions with entire bitches. But that might not be a factor for you.
Re: Thoughts on castration So, I will add a point to what I meant in the light of Rachael's comment - there is very little evidence that I have seen that castration changes a dog's behaviour much at all. I very much doubt it reduces excitability, boisterous behaviour, or anything like that. There is some evidence though, that it reduces dog to dog aggression (not something that most owners would view as a disadvantage to castration). But I don't want my dog to be any less confident or less inclined to stand up for himself with other dogs. He is a total and utter wimp, and I don't want him more wimpy. There may be nothing in this, of course, but absent any other considerations, it is a consideration for me.
Re: Thoughts on castration Hi Karen, this is my write up on this topic, but new studies are coming out all the time. So I would ask your vet what her thoughts are on the problems associated with early neutering, and if she is aware of any new studies which suggest that the risks are not as great as was previously indicated. If nothing else, this will give you an idea on how up to date she is, and on what basis she is making her recommendations to you.
Re: Thoughts on castration As Murphy is only five months old, you have plenty of time to think about it. I certainly wouldn't castrate at such a young age and would wait until he is over a year old, something to do with the growth of long bones and then you can make your mind up. I would have kept both of my dogs entire but both had a discharge which left unpleasant marks around the house. It hasn't changed their personality one bit and the young one now concentrates in class rather than sniffing the grass where a delightful female had sat
Re: Thoughts on castration Karen, this is definitely one for you and a discussion with your vet. I think this is one area where you hit the nail on the head (partly) - the Internet is a great resource for information, unfortunately it's not always good information, e.g. despite being moderated, 80% of all medical articles on Wiki contain incorrect information. A good thread for reminding us that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Well meaning anecdotal evidence and a discussion amongst peers is great (why we joined the forum) but it has it's limitations. Pippa's article on this has sound advice, outlines the pros and cons and points to the research.
Re: Thoughts on castration [quote author=gad link=topic=6473.msg86249#msg86249 date=1402219734] Karen, this is definitely one for you and a discussion with your vet. [/quote] Personally, I haven't been very impressed with vets on this subject. I have struggled to find one that is prepared to set out his/her views in any great detail in a way that is accessible to me. Most people are not in the position to "vet shop" for second and third opinions in a practical way. Maybe not helped by 15 minute appointment times. Looking back at the original research, although time consuming, and available on the Internet ( ) is a good idea I think.
Re: Thoughts on castration Just to add my twopence-worth..... we'd always assumed we'd need to have Pongo castrated eventually, but when we took him for his first vet's appointment the vet made a point of saying he'd discourage castration unless there was a very good reason for it (straying, aggression etc). So we are now completely open-minded about it - we'll see how things go. He's only six months old now, so lots of time to decide.
Re: Thoughts on castration Hi my vet is in the don't castrate unless you have a problem. Mainly with over sexualised behaviour. So I have had 2 intact dogs, both lived together in harmony for 5 years. I still have one intact 9 year old. Neither have had any problems so far with it. So I think you do right to think about it and not rush. It is a General Anaesthetic to think about as well if its unnecessary for your boy. He is young yet to see what he will be like, so perhaps just wait and see
Re: Thoughts on castration [quote author=JulieT link=topic=6473.msg86251#msg86251 date=1402220108] [quote author=gad link=topic=6473.msg86249#msg86249 date=1402219734] Karen, this is definitely one for you and a discussion with your vet. [/quote] Personally, I haven't been very impressed with vets on this subject. I have struggled to find one that is prepared to set out his/her views in any great detail in a way that is accessible to me. Most people are not in the position to "vet shop" for second and third opinions in a practical way. Maybe not helped by 15 minute appointment times. Looking back at the original research, although time consuming, and available on the Internet ( ) is a good idea I think. [/quote] Sorry, Julie have to disagree with you. It's unfortunate you haven't found a vet that can give you the facts (not sure what you mean by in a way that's accessible to you); we're really fortunate, live rurally and our vet spends as much time with you as you need but I understand that this probably isn't the case in Central London! But I stand by my original point, the internet is a great source of ill informed opinion as well as the good stuff - so how do you differentiate? And on something as important that this I would want to seek the advice of the experts I trust. Maybe the vets on here could add their tuppence worth?
Re: Thoughts on castration As far as spaying is concerned, I think there are 2 camps - older vets prefer to leave until after the first season, younger ones before if possible. I have no idea about the boys and their bits. You usually find that if there are lots of differing opinions, particularly among professionals, there IS no one right answer, and it is down to personal experience. I would generally say that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I guess it depends a lot where you live, who you mix with, if there are intact bitches, etc etc.
Re: Thoughts on castration I think Gordon it's perhaps because Julie isn't suggesting reading opinion but reading original research and forming your own opinion.....not wishing to put words in anyone's mouth The vets I've come across so far in my travels are pretty firmly ensconced in their opinion of the subject rather than pros and cons. The most open minded have been trainers but perhaps that's because they breed dogs and boys with no bits aren't much use. They seem more realistic on what training can achieve with respect to behaviour driven by being intact but as with all training you have to keep on top of it :
Re: Thoughts on castration [quote author=bbrown link=topic=6473.msg86307#msg86307 date=1402236421] I think Gordon it's perhaps because Julie isn't suggesting reading opinion but reading original research and forming your own opinion.....not wishing to put words in anyone's mouth [/quote] Agreed, I was merely trying to make the point that the internet is beleaguered with ill informed opinion. A quick google search and the goodness knows how many results that you get does make the task of filtering out the dross very difficult.
Re: Thoughts on castration [quote author=bbrown link=topic=6473.msg86307#msg86307 date=1402236421] The vets I've come across so far in my travels are pretty firmly ensconced in their opinion of the subject rather than pros and cons. [/quote] Thank you for answering the point, Barbara, much appreciated. This is exactly it - there is no need to be nervous of trying to understand the source material. I didn't say there was a need to rely on wikianything.
Re: Thoughts on castration Julie - you're misunderstanding my point. The very same point that Pippa made in her post who also suggested you discuss it with your vet incidentally. No one is disagreeing here, I also didn't suggest you were talking about wiki, merely an illustration, I also didn't suggest you have to be nervous of the source material either. I'll reiterate my point - there's a lot of ill informed opinion on the web on this subject; it would be prudent to just be mindful of that and be sure you're reading actual research and not a collection of well intentioned opinion. If you're contemplating major surgery then what's wrong with discussing the dangers of ill informed opinion that passes off as informed? So I'm not too clear on what your objection is to raising the point.
Re: Thoughts on castration Gad, I'm sorry, I gave a personal view that I didn't find vets too much help which has now resulted in a blow by blow challenge to everything I say. Enough. It's tiring.
Re: Thoughts on castration [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=6473.msg86306#msg86306 date=1402236247] You usually find that if there are lots of differing opinions, particularly among professionals, there IS no one right answer, and it is down to personal experience. I would generally say that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. [/quote] My thoughts echo the ones expressed by Jacqui
Re: Thoughts on castration Well we are going to take a wait and see approach. Benson is now 8 months old, and we really don't see any need right now. I am very cautious about information on the internet, rarely is the whole picture available in an easy to digest, peer-reviewed format, so it is really better to ask questions of a vet, and if you don't feel you are having a well-balanced discussion, then maybe ask another one, they really should be keeping updated with the recent research particularly as it may have a impact on some breeds which are susceptible to certain cancers.
