"Total Recall" Questions

Discussion in 'Dog Training: Principle and Practice' started by Ski-Patroller, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Ski-Patroller

    Ski-Patroller Cooper, Terminally Cute Forum Supporter

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    I just finished a quick read through of "Total Recall" and have a couple of questions.

    1. Is there a reason why 5 pips are suggested for recall? Three seems a lot easier, but I expect there is a reason for recommending 5. I just don't know what it is.

    2. How do you deal with this pretty detailed training in a two dog household. We normally train, walk and play with our two dogs together. It is not hard to work on Sit, Stay, Down etc. with both dogs close together, but I don't think that will work with recall, at least not in the early stages where there are supposed to be no distractions.
     
  2. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    I use 3 pips for my recall with Juno. I'm not sure it really matters whether you use 3 or 5 as long as you're consistent with the signal. If you use the whistle for signalling other cues you will have to adapt accordingly.

    Most members with more than one dog train them separately, particularly where one is a puppy, and most will be walking their dogs separately due to the differing exercise requirements of a growing puppy and an adult dog, it also enables bonds to be formed between you and the puppy or dog on an individual basis, together with individual attention.
     
  3. edzbird

    edzbird Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I use 3 pips too. More because OH said he couldn't manage 5 (!) and you do need 2 people for some of the exercises. I also train and walk both dogs separately. Well Belle doesn't get any training, she is quite old now and while she is not really trained as such, she presents little problem. Of late, she prefers short bimbles around the block.
     
  4. snowbunny

    snowbunny Administrator Forum Supporter

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    I use 3 pips, but I'm moving to 5 as I'm starting to work through Total Recall from the beginning myself. Willow's recall is very good, but Shadow's has failed a few times, so I figured I'd start a structured programme with the 5. I think both are common recall patterns. From what I remember, Pippa uses 5 because it makes it a lot more distinctive from the two pip signal she uses for other things.

    I train my two dog separately for the most part. It's easier for me as I do gun dog oriented training, and since I do it without any help, it's far better to have one dog working by itself, without me having to manage another one at the same time. When my husband can help out (very, very rare), I sometimes take them both so he can hold one while the other is working. It is definitely a good thing for building bonds, and the dogs absolutely love their one-on-one time with me. As soon as it's just me and one dog, their attention is so much more focussed on me and they get a definite extra spring in their step.
    Generally, they have one walk a day together and one separate. Obviously it takes a lot of time, so I've had to juggle other things a bit to fit this in. I do a lot more batch cooking at the weekends so I can just get something out of the freezer and heat it in the evenings!
     
  5. editor

    editor Administrator

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    That's right. If you don't use or need a turn whistle (two pips) it doesn't matter if you use three pips, two pips, four pips or ten pips for your recall cue. What matters is that you are consistent once you have made your choice. :)
     
  6. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    We train our dogs separately on 2 pips for 'recall' and 1 for 'stop' whistle as that's all we use. When out on a group walk we can now recall both dogs at the same time and occassionally a 'stop' - most of the time if our timing is spot on :rolleyes:;) Like the others have said you must be consistent and don't forget your high value treats for training.
     
  7. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    We were taught one tweet ( we call them tweets, no Twitter back then) for Stop and three tweets for recall. Our trainer said one and three, no two for anything, just so the dog can more easily distinguish the difference. I do think it's a good idea to use terminology, commands, tweets that most other people in your area use. If your dog ever gets loose, or has to be boarded or even at the Vet's speaking a common language can help
     
  8. Ski-Patroller

    Ski-Patroller Cooper, Terminally Cute Forum Supporter

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    Does anyone every do an immediate repeat of the signal? i.e. 3 pips and 3 pips? In radio communications we normally say the called party's name two or three times in a row to get their attention. It occurred to me that the dog might not hear the first pip or two, especially if they were a ways off. I'm not talking about repeating the call after the dog doesn't respond,

    Kind of a separate question. How well do dogs count? Can they easily distinguish between 4 pips and 5 pips? Does anyone use combinations of long and short pips? High and low tones? Before reading "Total Recall" I was thinking about using a Bosun's Pipe for a dog whistle, but I went ahead and bought a couple of Acme 211.5 plastic whistles.
     
  9. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    I don't think dogs count like humans count, but they have some understanding of quantities.

    I don't think dogs count pips on the whistle, but I think they recognise the sound pattern of a certain number of pips. The first 3 pips you blow of a string of 5 will sound different than 3 pips blown on their own. My own dog responds to two pips on their own (change direction) completely differently from the start of 5 pips. He doesn't wait to hear whether the pips continue from 2 to 5.

    Yes, I will repeat my recall as my dog is moving towards me or if he is out of sight when I blow my recall (if he is out of my sight, to hell with my recall, I'm going to do whatever I have to do until my dog comes back into my view).
     
  10. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    My three pips are actually 2 short and 1 long - which Juno has been known to mistake the football refs whistle on tv :oops::oops:. I don't normally repeat as she is rarely out of sigh, if I do repeat it is when she is on her way back to me or looking at me
     
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  11. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    That's an unusual sequence Rosemary, are you a football fan? ;) x
     
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  12. snowbunny

    snowbunny Administrator Forum Supporter

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    I used to do pip-pip-peeeep, too. The breeder of my two taught it that way; I'm not quite sure why he uses that, because it doesn't seem very common. Anyhow, after reading The Other End Of The Leash, I changed it to pip-pip-pip because of the mention that short sounds generally encourage faster movement and long sounds generally encourage slower movement or stopping.
     
  13. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Yes, I use a drawn out peep-peeeeeeep (getting softer) for my hunt whistle. Get your nose down and sniff is very different from a whip turn for a recall.
     
  14. Newbie Lab Owner

    Newbie Lab Owner Registered Users

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    I use three short pips as I miss blew five a few times early on. Thought I'd poisoned it reasently and was going to have to change it :eek: But worked again on pairing it yesterday and this morning. Later today in our local field he was flying back to me :D So hopefully I've saved it, only time will tell. Tasty tasty treats too.
     
  15. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    I did my duty standing on the touchline at the weekend supporting OH and his team mates in my youth. Nowadays I just tolerate having it on the tv (sport in general) and curse the refs whistle. It's funny really as soon as there's a pip pip Juno's up and looking at me as if to say what? Why are you whistling me? :D She does to my son's phone as well as he had it whistle for a text. Keep telling him to change it :)
     
  16. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    Give your dog three treats of a certain type all the time and then only give one or two and see how well your dog can count. :) I know, I changed the context.
     
  17. Ski-Patroller

    Ski-Patroller Cooper, Terminally Cute Forum Supporter

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    Actually I've read about trials where Labs could keep track of 5 birds, and knew when they had all 5.
     
  18. Newbie Lab Owner

    Newbie Lab Owner Registered Users

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    I was showing a recording to my OH that I had taken of Dexter and his sit at a distance training the other evening and Dexter promptly sat to attention where he was. He got a nice treat and made us smile :D
     
  19. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    I have to be careful with videos on the forum if there is any use of the whistle. Juno can be zonked on my feet but leaps up and looks at me as soon as she hears the peep. The look on her face is really quite funny
     
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  20. Newbie Lab Owner

    Newbie Lab Owner Registered Users

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    When I remember, I use earphones. I was showing OH one of Dexter bringing his teddy, as I said 'bring teddy' on the footage, Dexter went and brought me his teddy. They really do make you laugh, don't they, I love the expressions too. Dexter looked at me puzzled at first :)
     
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