I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Two issues really. 1) Cassie will if given the opportunity eat her own poo, which is manageable from the point of view that I know where it is and can usually prevent it these days by distraction while I remove it. I know that using high value high protein rewards are likely to be exacerbating the problem because maybe there is too much protein in the faeces which makes it desirable, but really I have been of the opinion that I want to train good behaviour over worrying about poo eating. She's on Burns Original Chicken and Brown Rice at present. I spoke to an advisor at Burns today who said that ideally I need to tailor the protein in rewards to the rest of the diet. Which I do know but find it tricky, but Burns do treats and pouches of moist food which I could use and therefore find it easier to monitor her intake. 2) And this is the bigger problem. Up until now she's shown little interest other dogs poo, only one really, which is an old dog who doesn't go far so easily avoided. But now my neighbours have a new dog -- and she seems to have a liking for his poo Obviously she sniffs it out from a distance, I can see her following her nose, and of course I don't know where it is. This is really the time she ignores my recall, happily bounding up to me after consuming whatever it is. But this a massive problem because 2 nights this week she's had diarrhoea -- for the first time in her life. Obviously it makes it harder to control what goes in and therefore out if she persists in doing this I could use a muzzle I suppose, but this would make me sad. I could do "magic word" using sardines. Or maybe the Burns moist food. Or I could go through Total recall exercises coming away from food, using Burns treats or moist food instead of chicken or sausage. I really need to find something because I want to do some proofing recall from other dogs. And I can work harder with off lead heel (which went well today) and focus on me games. Which we do anyway, but I like to have her "dog time". A long post I know but does anyone have any thoughts to help me get round this?
Could you describe the environment where she is able to get to the neighbour's dog's poo? Can you put a boundary such as a fence between your gardens? Even a low wire fence might be enough of a boundary for her to not cross. Otherwise, just have her on lead in the garden. She shouldn't need to be outside without you, so don't let her rehearse the behaviour.
Aah @selina27 bet this was upsetting for you. I don’t think I can help at all ‘cos as you know Sky used to do this (and probably still would). In desperation after she was so terribly ill, we muzzle her on off lead walks. I hate the muzzle (Sky really doesn’t seem bothered by it) but wasn’t prepared to have her so ill again. I feel she is at a disadvantage with that thing on her face - in that should she need to, she can’t defend herself. In our garden I clear up the moment the poo hits the ground so she can’t be tempted with hers or Red’s. We did try for ages to stop her doing it but all our tactics etc failed. The muzzle really was our last resort. Hope others can help you more.
Luckily my digs have never been interested in eating their poo or that of other dogs but duck, goose, rabbit, horse and cow have all been regarded as a lovely treat. I've tried tge 'magic word' which worked for a week or two but then duck poo won . I've found the only thing that has worked was 'leave' training it in many different places and proofing and proofing - oh and also a training lead to prevent absconding and self rewarding. My girl will walk past any form of poo or dead bodies on our walks (the last being a headless pigeon) with just a look and sniff and I rarely ask for a leave, just reward for walking away.
A ninety acre wood! This is the problem ! It's privately owned, we are both lucky enough to have access, along with a few other people, it's so frustrating because it's where she has her off lead time, mostly. What do you mean by Premack?
The Premack Principle is where a less likely behaviour is strengthened by using a more likely behaviour. So, ignoring the food on the ground (less likely) is rewarded with being allowed to take the food on the ground (more likely). So you'd work towards a default leave it, where you use a release such as "get it" to reward her for leaving it. I don't like using a "leave it" cue for this because it depends upon you seeing the food source first. I hasten to add, this isn't something I've worked on a lot with my lot for eating stuff off the floor; the principle is sound, but I've not had to worry about it, so never gone into any depth with it. In the meantime, the more chance she has to rehearse the behaviour, the more likely it is to continue, so that would mean keeping her on lead or on a line in that wood in the short term.
I have been doing a premack game with Red for months and she’s great at it. I’ve only done it in the house or garden as part of our training in respect of leaving something so yet to try it/proof it in other places - I suspect this will take a long time to train. I’m also not sure how it would work with a dog intent on snaffing poo but worth considering for Cassie - not that you will get instant results but another ‘tool’ that could work in the future. Like @snowbunny says the principle is sound. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Thanks @Atemas, that's helpful. Cass is really good at leaving things on the floor in the house, but I've never done it out of doors. I think I will have to use training line to pass the area where it mainly occurs and work on recall again. She's only hunting as far as she's concerned anyway!
Well I've decided to continue as I am with distracting Cass from her own poo and not get in a tiz about her diet. With the going off to eat other poo ( I think that's what she's doing) I've decided to use it as an opportunity to do off lead heel, something I'm very bad at doing, and also use magic hands in the danger zone. I was really pleased this morning -- she's much better at it than I thought. So everything is a training opportunity ! The two regular training classes must be helping me focus my mind.
Would you usually pick up Cassie's poo in the wood? I know this isn't a 'fix' but would it be rude to ask your neighbour to pick up their dog's poo? Maybe if you explain the problem you're having?
It's a way of getting them to focus on you and be positioned where you what them to be by having rewards in your hands and they have to learn to catch them. I learnt it on the Absolute Dogs free video games. I think @snowbunny may have a link about teaching it.
I wish being on lead was enough to prevent cat poo eating, but it's not. When Xena's sniffing in the grass at the side of tracks there's a 50/50 chance that it's cat (otherwise it's just a really good smell). I know the odds but I don't want to stop her sniffing. If I see the jaws start to open I pull her away, but mostly she gets a good munch.
As you know I've posted before about Inky eating dog poo. After the posts I had on my thread, I went ahead with the muzzle training. We walk along a prom and on paths behind it. Inky wears the muzzle on the grass paths because if he goes off the path into the longer vegetation I can't stop him eating poo. Interestingly I thought he'd stick the muzzle into all the poo but there's only one , very orange that he never leaves. Don't know what that dog eats! On the prom I take the muzzle off because I can see what's there. I play lots of games to keep him close and leave poo, sometimes I'm successful. The trainer at my new class has suggested retraining leave from the start with a new cue and I'm going to have a 1:1 with her. I live in hope that one day I'll be able to leave the muzzle at home! In the meantime I tell myself he doesn't roll in horrible things, is getting better everyday on the lead and he has good recall from everything except dog poo. Have to look on the positive side!
Oh yes, the orange poo, I think we've spoken before on the forum about it and how it seems to be a favourite of poo eating dogs . @Inky lab I'm quite interested in how you got Inky to accept the muzzle, Ripple will wear it but after a while tries to scrape it off or shuts down and just stands still. I've spent a long time trying to get him to accept it, and although putting it on is not a problem it is the keeping it on happily that I'm struggling with.
Hi @ SteffiS, I put a piece of kibble in the muzzle and Inky puts his nose straight in so I clip it on, let him off the lead , give him a couple of treats and then say free. I try to keep my tone the same as when I'm not putting the muzzle on. I find he doesn't fuss if he's on the grass, just sniffs along but if we meet someone, he'll always try to rub it off. Usually I'm explaining he's got it on because of what he eats then I walk on, call him and he goes off sniffing again. I found if we are on the concrete prom he scrapes it much more and that's one reason I take it off there. Generally he doesn't seem too bothered on the grass although I'm not very good at reading dog body language but his tail is out behind and he seems busy. I'm sure he'd rather not have it on and I'd certainly rather he didn't have to wear it but to a certain extent I've hardened my heart and think it's better him having it on than the situation before. As I said above I haven't given up hope and am retraining leave. I can't quite understand the premack principle and how you would apply it to this but I take heart from what @Jojo83 above posted. What is in that orange poo!?
Keep the faith, and keep on training and you'll get there . I spent quite a few months saying 'leave' every few minutes or so it seemed and being ultra vigilant on walks so I could be ready to say 'leave' . Then it dawned on me that I was rarely saying 'leave' anymore, Jen would just sniff and move on .
