Hello! I am getting my lab x collie (Borador) puppy in just over a week. EXCITED! Have been doing lots of research into both breeds in order to understand the dog's needs and I'm coming up against conflicting advice regarding the herding instinct. Apparently, the herding instinct often outweighs the retrieving in the borador, and as it won't be a working dog I really want to do the right thing so it doesn't start herding children or cars. Obviously, I will start training good manners from day one and will follow Pippa's book about raising a happy, well balanced dog. I know that collies are loyal and the most important aspect in any training is maintaining a good partnership between dog and owner. Plus I understand that a happy collie is a well exercised and mentally stimulated dog - am fully prepared for all this, and very much looking forward to it! When it's old enough I will take it to a good local agility class and have a very large back garden for all sorts of fun and games, plus live in the sticks for long daily walks! HOWEVER, one bit advice says to minimize chasing games (i.e. fetch) as you don't want the pup to get into the habit of chasing things, for example if I play fetch I should only throw the ball a few times, that's it. The other bit of advice says to do LOTS of chasing games to get the herding 'out of the dog's system'. I'm not quite sure which way to turn! If I ever play fetch I will make sure the dog focusses on me each time he brings the ball back before I throw again, so he knows he's playing the game with me and not the ball, and I also know to nip it in the bud if he starts getting a bit obsessive/over excited. Of course if he ever does start herding anything inappropriate I have tools to help me overcome it, but I just don't want to encourage anything and make a rod for my own back. Any advice on controlling the herding instinct which doesn't damage the pup would greatly appreciated! Has anyone on the site got a borador? Thanks in anticipation! Sally
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy How interesting! I'm not sure I can help with your questions though. But I hope you post about what you learn and your training with this pup. I'm a big fan of Kay Lawrence's books and materials, and might go on one or two of her courses this year. She does a lot with border collies. I understand they are very sensitive to movement and can get incredibly frustrated watching movement which they can't control (herd) - although I have to say, my Labrador is like this (no doubt without the desire to herd though). An article I read referred to a lot of people complaining that border collies are "reactive" to which Kay apparently responded "I hope your dog is reactive, otherwise it means he is dead". ;D ;D ;D. Sounds like my kind of trainer! The material can be found on "learning about dogs" website.
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy I don't know much about lab/collie crosses, I am afraid, but I do know a little bit about border collies that retrieve. My mother's brown and white border collie is an absolutely obsessive retriever, as was her previous border collie. And I have a friend and training partner, who stopped taking her female border collie to agility because it hyped her up to much. She has been doing retrieving training very successfully with her for years now! Only problem is that she is totally gun shy (typical for borders, apparently). So if you want to, I am sure you can do retriever training with your little pup!
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy Hi there, I've never owned a border collie but I do flyball with my Lab and most of the other dogs there are collies- as you'd expect! our trainer said the other day that flyball is basically just a fancy retrieve which if you think about it is true. You send your dog out to retrieve a ball from a box and then they race back to you with it. All the collies seem to get along fine doing this and I think most of the dogs on the flyball circuit are either collies or have some type of collie in them. If you get a ball obsessed puppy then the key thing seems to be to have a reward which your dog values more than the tennis ball she is bringing back to you to get a successful retrieve / flyball run. Our trainer gets us to use tug toys as playing with them prolongs the reward more than just giving them a piece of food and a lot of flyball dogs - including the collies - don't seem to be particularly motivated by food rewards and most collies seem to love to tug. Plus with flyball we're not aiming to get a delivery to hand so we don't mind if the dog spits the ball to get a reward. Hope you have fun with your new puppy! Vikki
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy I had a Collie/ESS and never noticed any herding behaviour. I sometimes walk with a lady who has three Collies, two of which work. None of them display any herding behaviour and two of them are devoted to balls and do not chase. The one Collie who does not work is a bit obsessed with shadows and chasing jet planes ;D
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy Thanks everyone - have looked up Kay Laurence and might go on one of her collie workshops at some point. I will be taking him to puppy class and will ask the trainer there his advice also. Might look into flyball too! Although I've also had conflicting advice about tug toys and collies, as some say to NEVER use them as they teach them to play with their teeth, while others say it's a fun game that they love and value. I think I'll just have to see how it goes and spend lots of time getting to know him and be able to read his body language etc, and make my judgements on that... Will note down anything I find that is useful and will share in case anyone else needs some advice! 6 days to go....!!!
Re: Training the herding instinct in Borador puppy Hi Sally, how exciting! I can't wait to see pictures of your pup - tell us more, do you have a name? What sex is s/he? What colour? We will NEEEEEED to see pictures ASAP, obviously!! I don't have any experience of a "borador" and very limited experience of puppies in general, but I can totally sympathise with the issue of conflicting information available. My advice would be to look around the websites you're reading and get a feel for the methods they're using in general. If they use terms like "dominance", "pack", and any reference to the use of force or intimidation etc, they're probably a bit outdated. Stick to sites that promote positive, rewards-based training methods. I also think each dog is different so you have to take that into consideration. Some will love to play tug, others won't be bothered in the slightest. Good luck and keep us posted
