This transition from traditional training to positive training is more involved than I thought. Hard to break old habits. If I don't have my eyes directly on Delta, she has to be in the kennel. She will chew on any or everything. I like to take her out of the kennel at any opportunity that I can, so when we eat dinner, I like to put her on the leash and keep her by my side. Then she started chewing through the leash, so I rigged up a piece of chain to hook to her collar. The chain kind of works, but she likes chewing on the chain also, and she never really settles down. Plus the chain is harder to manage and is bothersome to me. I have been working with her and giving her treats to not get on or in the dishwasher when I am loading or unloading it. She has done pretty well with this. So I was thinking about trying this at the dinner table. But the thought of feeding (eventhough it is treats and not table food) a dog from the dinner table, makes the traditional trainer in me cringe. But I really think that it will work. Is there any reason not to do this?
There is a good reason not to do it - if you do it on a regular basis, your dog will expect treats while you eat, and it's more or less the same general impact as a dog begging for food. Unless, you do this as part of training a proper settle cue. Even then, a settle cue is best training without treats. You can feed a dog for doing something easily enough (that something being alert, sat on a mat with his/her eyes trained firmly on your food!). But in order to feed them for doing nothing (eg relaxed, laid calmly, snoozing) then you first have to get that behaviour and food often doesn't help with that, plus in delivering the food it's best to try to do it in a way that doesn't disturb that behaviour. It sounds like you are expecting a young dog to settle for too much time, and in challenging circumstances (food around, you eating etc.). If you want to train a settle cue, you could try doing it without so many distractions first.
When we got our dog Obi he had no idea how to wait quietly while we ate (or watched tv or anything). He'd bark, continuously. He'd been an outside dog and basically had no experience of waiting while humans did domestic human things. So we used treats to get him to lie down and stay lying down quietly while we ate. Yes, that meant he was very attentive and waited close by while we ate, but he learned to do it quietly and lying down, which was all we wanted. Gradually we reduced the frequency of the treats and now he'll lie quietly for a whole meal. He goes to lick the plates at the end. If I had a puppy I'd train lying on a mat while we ate, with no treats during the meal. But in our case we didn't start with a puppy but an adult dog with a barking and self control problem that was seriously disruptive. You could try using a crate in the house during mealtimes, so you don't have to manage a lead, and giving her something nice to chew on when she goes in (like a filled Kong). Then ignore her for the whole meal. There'll probably be quite a ruckus from her, trying to get your attention, and you'll just have to grit your teeth and wait it out. Eventually she should learn it's pointless and give up. Start with a mat in the crate and eventually aim to do away with the crate and use the mat only.
We used to pop Lilly in her crate when she was little. It was in the kitchen where we ate. She used to take herself in there when the plates came out for serving our food, or often before that. Can't really remember how we started her in there, I guess threw a treat in then locked her door. Although we used Kongs, they were for when we went out. I was doing it again I would use a Kong in the crate.
If rewarding your dog with treats whilst in an open crate is good enough for uber +R trainer Ken Ramirez it's good enough for me I would say it's key to reduce the frequency to avoid begging and anticipation. A mat or crate is important as a 'place to be' for the dog.
I started mine off in their crate during meal times and then transitioned to them settling on vet bed. I've never used treats at meal times, because I don't want to have begging dogs. If we're eating on the sofa, Shadow will generally come and see if we're feeling generous (we haven't been yet, but a dog's gotta try), but he gives up after a few minutes and goes and finds somewhere to snooze. Willow doesn't even bother looking now, she'll just jump onto the other sofa and go to sleep. With the dishwasher, I didn't use treats at all. I just closed the door every time they tried to put their heads in. They soon learnt they weren't going to get anywhere with it, so there wasn't any point trying. It's a bit tiresome at first, but they learn quickly.
Great stuff. When I was saying "kennel," what I was actually meaning was "crate." Her crate is in the kitchen, and is only a few feet from our table in which we eat dinner. Looks like I am just expecting too much too soon. During dinner, I can put her in the crate and she acts just fine (I did that just last night when I did not feel like fighting with her leash.) Thanks for the input. Looks like y'all prevented me from going down the wrong path.
I think the disadvantage of using treats for a settle cue while you are eating is the association of the dog getting food from the table where your food is - unless you get up and give the dog a treat that is a little way remote from your food. I am absolutely too lazy for that. I'd use a remote treat dispenser though, although have never got a proper settle yet using food. Probably because I haven't put enough time into it! Having said all of that we have two different system in our house. Charlie gets food when OH eats. He just puts a pile of kibble by his plate and feeds Charlie, slipping human food in when he thinks I'm not looking. Everyone else has always completely ignored Charlie when eating, and Charlie has learned that is a cue to settle. If Charlie ever begs for food from other people, he gets told to go on his mat. I'm getting a bit sloppy though, I distractedly gave Charlie a bit of my cheese on toast the other day, which I'm already regretting!
I want to enjoy my own meal in peace (as I make sure the dog can do with his) and I don't want to be bothered with dog training when I'm eating. So Oban got shut out by a gate while we ate. Lo and behold, after a few months the time inevitably came when one of us forgot to shut the gate. And Oban stayed out anyway. A bit confused that he couldn't put his head through the cat hole and lean on the gate but he managed with leaning his head on his toes. Easiest training I ever did and without knowing or even trying to train.
thats the best training I love it when i realise they've learnt to do something for themselves. Mine have all copied each other too its like a labrador culture establishes itself and then continues throught he generations. Doug showed Rory what to do and he accepted that was the law it was amazing to watch and why I was so keen to get another dog before Doug died so that I could keep this culture going. Rory was the easiest dog in the world to toilet train because the other dogs showed him how. Midge eats poo so I made sure this part of our house culture did not go on to the next generation.
We have to teach our pups to lie under the table at home, in cafes, pubs, restaurants, other people's home etc. Using treats doesn't work as they don't tend to settle - instead they look for treats. I put the pups on their lead (end round my thigh) and tell them to 'settle'. They have a nylabone to chew if they are feeling antsy. It takes time, but it works. Twiglet is 10 months old now and goes straight under the table (no lead) as soon as we dish up .
From our very first meal with Juno in the house she has positioned herself either under the table by my feet or beside my chair, which has proved extra beneficial when out and about as she will settle beside me or under a table with no fuss. She is not given treats from our plates or her own treats while we are seated at the table. It is very easy to give a treat or two to an appealing puppy and all of a sudden you have a 25kg dog who begs whenever you sit down, easier to prevent than cure
I also hVe trained Simba to lie on his mat in the kitchen while we eat. And I never, ever give him food from the table - if I want to give him a bit of a scrap I will put it in his bowl, or occasionally, I will toss it to him while he is lying on his beg and while he is not paying attention to us eating. He always goes to his mat now when we eat, and I don't have any begging issues....except when we have visitors over. He seems to think, "fair game" and will go stand by them, looking adoringly at their plate, or stick his head under their elbow. It doesn't help that friends who we have over a fair bit give him a cuddle while he does this. I keep telling them to ignore him but it falls on deaf ears...frustrating! Because of course he thinks that all visitors enjoy a Lab sniffing surreptiously at their plates inches from his nose while he is getting cuddled...surprisingly, some do not....
