Oh im in a tizz. Today was Dexter's much awaited appointment with the ONLY holistic vet in Dubai.I have come away feeling like I want to cry my eyes out....this post IS health related but we are also going to pass through training and general So I will leave it to Pippa's judgement about where it's final place should be.... It's 45 degrees out today and I had to drive 40 minutes in a car he doesn't usually travel to get to the surgery.Dexter doesn't love the car but tolerates it.He was het up when we got there,tail wagging a million,wanting to sniff everything and say hello to everything and totally ignoring me and my instructions....then did a poo,great start! Anyway the vet was about 12( my tone is confrontational isnt it?)before she conducted her examination on his eyes She had a watch and handle of him and then proceeded to basically character assassinate him....and now I'm home and all upset thinking is she right ,doubting myself and and can I not trust me my own judgement of my own dog........ She said he is poorly socialized,under confident,disobedient,has got the better of me already and I'm in for some fun and games over the next couple of months!As the consultation proceeded she also asked did I know anything about his litter mates and was he the runt?Am I being too sensitive? Anyway I will stop waffling and try and draw this into a couple of questions that I know all the experience on here will be able to help me with. Poorly socialized/under confident : Dex came to us at 5 months old in a crate ,on a plane from another country ......he travelled well,didn't seem phased by this in any way and adjusted to his life brilliantly.would that have happened if he was an under confident dog?he is wonderful with my neice and nephew...2 and 4 years old,he barks a couple of times to any new visitors,but then approaches them( still jumps up at times) with tail wagging,says a hi has a sniff then goes and lies away from us nicely settled down or playing with a toy doing his own thing.he has 2 proper walks a day( following the guide.ines of 5 minute rule) and then I take him out at 6pm when the park is full with interesting things and we experience,skateboards,prams,bikes,kids,birds,dogs,( he has never displayed any aggressive behavior,i have never seen him bare his teeth,i dont know what his growl sounds like,in fact when I think about itI have only seen his hackles up once in fear..... 2 weekends ago when the family next door put a bouncy castle up!)if he barks at anything or anyone for eg gardners in the communal gardens perturb him......i expose him to that situation until he has come to terms,now he will sit and let them walk past him although he will still pull and bark a bit at them if he comes across them by surprise,Dex and I are a work in progress,he doesn't get it all but slowly and surely I try and do my best by him..anyone reading this,am I off the mark with his socialization ?he doesn't have a lot of Play with other dogs but I'm working on that ,he had a play date yesterday and everything went well and any larger dog we come across I ask the owner if we can come and say hello....and I've never had any problems....is he under confident?the vets evidence for this is he pulls away from her when she pulled him by the collar.......think I would too!Dexter isn't a cuddly dog,he loves coming and sitting on us if we sit on his bean bag and having a wrestle and when he is relaxing he will sit by one of our feet,just touching but I just accept that as his personality not that he is under confident ..... I was at the vet for his eyes.....I know holistic health explores the body as a whole and I totally get that but she looked at his belly and skin underneath and because it is a dark colour she says he has a skin condition that he has created by scratching.He hardly ever scratches,a few times a day,And ive put it down to him being furry and the climate being hot.....is it not normal for dogs to scratch a couple of times a day? Dexter is a yellow lab,his skin pigment underneath is darker than a pink Colour,although he is pink in places......his skin on the underneath of his legs is this darker Colour,he never scratches there. Anyone with a yellow lab could you let me know what you think? Disobedientexter is bomb proof in our house and in the garden, he will heel on and off the lead sit on one command( latency is an issue but we are working on it)and stay in sit for over a minute ,and will.et me back away from him for a good 20-30 feet.......I do lose him outside.pulling is a big issue( and I thought as he is only a pet,my biggest issue..... What do I know)I have persevered with stopping and starting on walks on the lead to eliminate this but after 2 months gave up as walks were tedious and a sensation harness restrained him ( I k now its not a fix,he still pulls when he can)I have just finished my first read through of Pippa's beginner retriever gundog book and am ready to tackle the pulling again,doing the 180 degree turns.this vet has totally undermined my confidence and am I ruining Dexters obedience levels by my lack of experience and going to slow ? while I'm feeling my way,is he getting beyond our control and we can't even see it?his recall is good,he always comes when called at home and we are just starting to test him outside ...... Blimey this post needs a 'sit down,you may be some time' warning on it! I just feel tonight as I give him his dinner I shouldn't even be allowed to own him!all my husband and I want is a well mannered ,obedient pet and I thought he was showing a lot of potential in this.....surely he shouldn't be perfect yet at 8 months....or again do I need a reality check? Hope everybody else is having a lovely day and enjoying and loving their pooches? I still love mine to bits but I'm looking at him waiting patiently and perfectly before I release him to eat his dinner and I wonder am I seeing him through rosé tinted glasses? Best wishes
Re: Vet visit You poor thing. What a horrible experience. Here are a few thoughts Every decent vet and GP for that matter, that I have ever met is 'holistic' in their approach. They take into account, not only the illness in front of them, but all kinds of other influences that could be impacting on the patient's health. If they are not doing so then they are not simply chosing to avoid an holistic approach, they are a bad vet! So, I firmly believe that all good vets are holistic. For a dog with an eye problem, I would pick the nearest vet to me and ask him to refer me to an eye specialist if I wanted another opinion. Basic socialisation is done and dusted within the first four months of life. You therefore, had no part in this and are not responsible for whether or not it was done properly. Socialisation once the critical window closes at fourteen to fifteen weeks of age, is a slow process and it sounds as though you are putting a lot of effort into it, so you should be proud of yourself. Training is a process that carries on throughout the dog's life, but it is never, ever too late to start. It sounds to me as though your only real problem is pulling on the lead. You are in good company, half the Labrador owners in the world have not got to grips with that one yet. Take a deep breath and find another vet. Remind yourself you are doing a good job, and read everything you can find on heelwork. Quite a few articles here Then work out a rough plan of how you are going to fix the pulling, and ask for any help you need. Pippa
Re: Vet visit Oh what a nasty experience for you , I am so sorry, no wonder you are so distressed . Sam at 8 months was quite " hit and miss " behaviour wise , I just upped the game training wise but for heavens sake , 8 months is still a puppy, not a robot and pups often play up and let us down just when we dont need it . Times like this, you dont need taking to task and a Vet ticking you off , circumstances must be allowed for too . I agree with Pippa 100% , try and find another Vet , dont get upset by this Vets attitude , you are doing well with Dexter and really dont need this at all, its support and encouragement you want , chin up x
Re: Vet visit Well what a rubbish experience ! It's a rare day to disagree with Pippa and I'm not about to start now You sound like you're exposing Dexter to as much new experience as possible in a thoughtful and considered way. As we've learnt, training is ongoing and progress is not linear. Some things we(us and our dogs) find easier than others. We insist on certain behaviour in our house that my in-laws don't ask for in theirs. Their 5 year old lab has got the hang of it no problem (with the help of a few treats!) so Dexter is not the finished article yet(neither is Riley at two years old by any stretch of the imagination) but again it sounds like you've put thought and effort into it so far which puts you (and him) ahead of a lot of people/dogs we meet on walks. I can't comment on Dexters skin but Riley scratches, I changed his food away from wheat based as this can be a common irritant but he still scratches although perhaps less so. All sorts of things can contribute though our central heating was cited as a possibility but I'm not turning it off over the winter any time soon ! Find a new vet and keep enjoying and loving your very special boy ;D
Re: Vet visit I've just read my post - goodness I need to stop using brackets, it's practically unreadable! I'd edit it but I'm missing my edit button so all I can do is apologise and hope you manage to make sense of it. In summary - it sounds to me like you're doing a great job! Find a new vet and keep going ;D
Re: Vet visit Oh dear. What a dreadful experience for you both. Nothing to add to the other comments - agree wholeheartedly. Don't let your experience today get you down. Sounds like you are doing a great job and shame on the "professional" who seems to have been less than that today Jacqui
Re: Vet visit No,no I'm the queen of the brackets and my post was pouring out me like I was talking,grammar,punctuation? No chance Thanks so much ......I've been home a few hours now and am so grateful for your replies.this wasn't my usual vet or practice,it was a clinic I thought might give me alternative treatment for Dex's sore eyes.She has given me some antibiotic cream that I asked about ( Thankyou Kate,Sam had some when he was younger)will see how that works and she is also preparing a homeopathic tincture to support his immune system so again I am open to try that......but you know after that I'm going to try and help him myself and see how he goes with just regular bathing and good hygiene, and I won't darken their door again! My usual vet,although still only looks 12( he he he!) is lovely and last time I went she didn't have an appointment after me and we just sat on the floor of her room and played with Dexter after she had examined him.there was a blummin miaowing kitten in the ante room today that Dex could walk into.....he hasn't seen many kittens on my watch so no wonder his recall was non existent! .....do t think he could believe his eyes! I will do my homework tonight on heel work,Thankyou for the pointers Pippa,and will get cracking tomorrow.he can still have his socialization walks on his harness FOR NOW but his other 2 walks are going to be on the lead and a bit of a shock for him I'm afraid! You are all so kind and hope I can help you all back one day.....Angela x
Re: Vet visit Hi. Vet dermatologist of 26 years experience here - so sorry to hear of your horrible visit today. I cannot comment on his eyes/skin for professional reasons but would just like to say that as an owner of two working labs (I'm on my sixth working lab since my dad took me shooting with him at the tender age of 9) then people who comment on their socialisation and behaviour should do so after they have tried the training/socialisation thing for themselves with a puppy or two....one of my two at the moment was bred by a veterinary nurse and well socialised by her as a tiny puppy, moved in with me at 14 weeks and has been going in to work daily with me ever since, so very few dogs around more used to the vet than mine! However, if I had taken her to a strange veterinary practice at 8 months of age she would have behaved almost exactly as Dexter did in the surgery up to and including the poo section.....she's pretty bomb-proof now with continued training so don't worry, I think you're doing fine. Just keep up the good work. And I think Pippa's comment that all good vets are holistic vets should be framed and placed in the hall of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.....
Re: Vet visit Thankyou Lochan,for taking time to write I've been searching about his skin on the Internet and it generally seems to support my original summation that......as Both Dexter's parents were black labs ,would it be reasonable to assume some of that may come out in his markings?I've noticed it myself over the 3 months we have had him.....it's been a gradual darkening ,even the pads on his paws have gone darker......There are no raised,dry or irritated parts,it is exactly like his pink skin just gone a few shades darker. Think i need to man up and keep faith in myself over some things!! Going off in search of some kittens and cats to sniff and investigate tomorrow! Goodnight all x
Re: Vet visit Some yellow labs can have darkish skin under the fur and be normal. In certain skin conditions, notably yeast infections, the skin may pigment as well. I'd not be too concerned if he isn't scratching much. However I've lost count of the number of cases of periocular skin disease where there is a constant argument between specialist dermatologist and ophthalmologist as to whether it is a primary skin or eye problem we are looking at.....not always straightforward. Good luck, hopefully it will settle as he gets older and used to the environment.
Re: Vet visit Yellow labs should have black pigmented skin - that means around the eyes, lips, nose, and pads of the paws. They do also have darker pigmentation to other areas of skin on their body - e.g. grainy looking dark pigmentation on the belly. That is 100% normal for a yellow lab that is properly pigmented. Genetically, yellow Labs are actually black Labs with two doses (one copy from each parent) of a recessive gene (yellow) that prevents black pigment being laid down in the fur - but not the skin. Dexter's parents were each carrying one dose of the recessive yellow gene and both passed it on the Dexter - who therefore turned out yellow. Yellow Labs that do not have black pigmentation, but brown, are actually chocolate Labs with two doses of yellow. Black pigmentation is 'correct' from a show standards perspective. Sorry for the long winded explanation. I would be going back to your normal vet too. I would have been fuming after that visit! Livid! Gee, once my vet clipped my dog's dew claw nails without asking and it took me days to forgive him, LOL. If I'd had the experience you had I think I'd be launching a media campaign complete with blockade and protest march (just kidding, sort of). Dexter sounds like a completely normal young Lab to me. And you sound like a wonderful owner!!! So I'd just carry on as you are (minus the 'holistic' vet).
Re: Vet visit Wow Rachael Thankyou,I appreciate all the info,she should be struck off!a vet should know all that!Dubai is a small place so word will get about dont you worry!I've gone into anxiety mode about this whole eye thing because 1. I obviously want to get Dexter's eyes better for him but 2. We are going away for 2 weeks and leaving him to be pet sat and I'm anticipating a flare up while we are away......first time we are leaving him and to be honest I don't want to go!!!!he he ! After a horrible afternoon I came to bed chuckling last night ...Chris my Husband gave him top score for doing a poo on her floor!go Dex! Have a great day everyone thanks for all your help Angela x
Re: Vet visit [quote author=Dexter link=topic=1633.msg11845#msg11845 date=1370313424] After a horrible afternoon I came to bed chuckling last night ...Chris my Husband gave him top score for doing a poo on her floor!go Dex! [/quote] Just laughs and laughs! Go Dexter ! Gotta Love them !
Re: Vet visit Drop the nasty vet and give yourself a pat on the back. You are doing the best you can for Dexter, and it sounds to me like things are going well! Just chill a bit and relax.
Re: Vet visit Hi Angela, I am so sorry to hear you have had a nasty experience but you have had excellent advice here about Dexter but I just wanted to say I agree, you are doing a marvellous job with him so keep going. Dump the nasty Vet. I took Charlie to a local Vet for his jabs when we first rescued him and he was so frightened, the first thing she did was tell me off for the way Charlie walked into the Surgery, she proceeded to remove his flat collar and put a chain check collar on, took him into her field and yanked him so hard around the field to MAKE him walk nicely, bless him he looked scared :'( The fact that he was a 9 month old rescue dog meant nothing to her. Needless to say she was given back her chain collar, I told her exactly what I thought of her and needless to say I didn't go back there. That Vet went out of business, serves her right. We now have a lovely Vet that has 3 rescue dogs herself so she understands and makes time to play and make a big fuss of Charlie when we go to see her and of course lots of treats Helen xx
Re: Vet visit Karen you are dead right,I'm a new woman today!i've had a word with myself too about being a bit more assertive about him.I think because he is my first dog everyone knows more than me.....and they probably do but I am the world expert on Dexter because he's ours! Helen,you sound like you had a shocker too........glad they went bust! Chilling out time for us inside now during the hottest part of the day,then we'll head out later to see what friends we can make today! Bfn x
Re: Vet visit Thanks David. Had a lovely 6pm walk,met a lady with a rescue dog and she said come into my garden and have a play! Her dog Molly is a little mix of everything and doesn't like to play with toys....Dex went through her toy box like a tsunami....and before you know it Molly was playing with a weird looking alien thing! her owner was delighted. Always a funny angle with one of my stories.......they had artificial grass!!!!!(well I suppose we do live in the desert!)so when the sniffing and the manic circling started we practiced a swift,successful recall and left the garden while we still had friends x
