I don't seem to be getting very far with this, very hit and miss. And of course every time I take Ruby out and she doesn't decide to play the game, we pass strangers walking their adult dogs advocating a variety of restraints. We've got a 17 week old puppy called Ruby and I'm trying to teach her to walk loosely on the lead by stopping still every time she pulls and not reacting until she loosens the tension. I reward her with treats when she comes to heel and when she's concentrating, she will come back to heel on command. The second she receives her treat she races ahead again though, so I have to stop, wait for her to stop pulling, Mark with 'good girl' and tell her to come to heel again. And so it begins again. A short walk can take forever. I switch to extendable lead when we get to open grass and let her have a play. Is what I'm doing likely to work in the long run or should I alter something? We don't start training classes until the beginning of September. Ruby wears a harness which fastens above her shoulders for walks and a normal lead. Should we think about a slip lead or another kind of harness? Something to make it uncomfortable for her when she pulls? On occasions when we take her somewhere 'exciting' she just pulls and pulls.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hello there I personally would not use a slip lead on a puppy that pulls - it would be painful for her but unless you are prepared to implement lead jerks with it (even more painful) it may not stop her pulling. If you do decide to use punishment, which can be quick and effective, it's best to do so with a professional trainer. I also wouldn't use a device to stop her pulling. The reason I say this is that you have to either use those devices forever, or train anyway. I prefer my training to be "stand alone" and not dependent on a device. But if your safety or health is at risk (young labradors can be very strong) then that's a different matter. You will succeed if you carry on not allowing your dog to pull. It takes time, a lot of time. But it does work. It's possible that the extendable lead is not helping you. I don't dislike extendable leads, and used one myself when my dog was recovering from surgery. But he had already mainly learned to walk to heel and not pull, and he was very responsive to any pressure on the extendable lead. I wouldn't have used one before I made more progress on "normal" lead walking. To stop the "grab the treat and run", you could give a few treats, quickly, and vary how many you give. Sometimes one, sometimes 5. Make sure you give the treats for walking nicely, not for stopping pulling. And don't underestimate how many treats to give. Sometimes, at first, in a difficult situation I would give treat after treat after treat - constantly. For as long as I asked for my dog to walk nicely in that situation. (obviously, I didn't continue like that, I faded the treats out over time). So avoid the pull, heel, treat, pull, heel, treat game.... A few things that helped me: 1) Turid Rugass' book "my dog pulls - help". It's a very simple method of teaching a dog to turn towards you on a noise, and then turning and walking the other way when the dog responds. She explains how to make this less stressful for the dog. About turn walks when a dog pulls (with lead jerks) are quite aversive otherwise. 2) Knowing that it was going to take a long time, and treating every walk as a training walk. 3) Sticking to the same walk - up and down the same street - until I could do that, then moving onto the next street (when I would have to start again) - dogs do not generalise that you mean they have to walk nicely on a new street, when it's windy, when they need a poo. Best of luck with it. It can be tiring and it's a long haul. But it's worth it.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hi there, I had this issue with Molly too (and still do sometimes when we pass high level distractions like kids playing football in the park etc). I noticed that you said that you use a harness. Just a thought but when we started our first puppy class back in January our trainer was very strict that harnesses were not allowed. This was because, in the training club's view, harnesses encourage dogs to pull. I know not everyone will probably agree with that statement and it essentially boils down to what works for you and your dog. However, my trainer used the analysis of a husky pulling a sledge- if you want to maximise a dogs 'pulling' power you'd put a harness on and then they can lean their weight into it and pull. Also, if you're following the kennel club's good citizen award scheme you need to have your dog in a flat collar and lead anyway. All I know is that on the odd occasion when I have had to walk Molly on a harness and a long lead I certainly notice the difference- she pulls like a train! Also at 17 weeks Ruby is still only a baby and it will take you a while to get her walking nicely past every distraction she meets. I sometimes think you need the patience of a saint with a little lab puppy! Good luck with your training! Vikki
Re: Walking loosely on the lead I know Vikki said not everyone will agree about a back fastening harness and pulling, so I will just put the alternative view. I'm a big fan of back fastening harnesses, so like the different views to be in the same thread, so people reading see both points of view. Hope that's ok. I do think it is is a big myth that back fastening walking harnesses encourage pulling. A pulling harness for a husky pulling a sledge is very different from a properly fitted walking harness. They are not the same. If a dog pulls in a walking harness, it's front feet tends to be lifted upwards, reducing its traction - this does not happen in sledge harness. And the biggest tip is don't be a sledge if the dog is pulling. Stand still. If a dog is trained to walk properly, it can walk properly in whatever it is wearing. Back fastening harnesses take the strain off the dog's neck while it is pulling and lunging. But if you train properly, it is not at all difficult to transfer to whatever device you wish to use, since the back fastening harness gives you no mechanical assistance to stop the pulling, it's all down to your training (unlike a front fastening harness, or a headcollar).
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Harley can pull a lot on lead, usually at the start of walks. I use a dual harness - lead attaches front and back. This has really worked for me as I can't have the pulling due to spinal injuries. This harness helps as when she starts to pull, I can give a quick tug at the front which makes body turn towards me. I have proofed all our local streets so we can walk to the shops and around a few blocks. I done this street by street and turned around towards home every time she pulled. After an off lead run, she will walk nicely on a flat collar. Good luck
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Pongo used to pull, but the 'stopping' approach did work. It just took a little while (and for him to grow up a bit). However, it absolutely does NOT work if there are dogs around - he is desperate to go and say hello to any other dog within 50 yards.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead i agree with julies good advice, i used an harness why i was training him to walk nicely , as soon as he was walking nicely i transferred to a flat collar, it takes a lot of time, patience, and lots of tears, ;D it will click in time
Re: Walking loosely on the lead [quote author=Rosie link=topic=7184.msg98920#msg98920 date=1406968435] However, it absolutely does NOT work if there are dogs around - he is desperate to go and say hello to any other dog within 50 yards. [/quote] And this is where,IMO a harness is valuable as it gives you more,safer control and if your lab lunges or leaps as they all do at one time or another, that impact isn't on their neck....I can't bear that straining and gasping as they strain at their collar... Hi Veela....I'm a pulling survivor ;D who has a dog that needs regular revision excercises : We were so badd by 7 months that I was in tears on walks and had to start completely over with a new command and Pippas training articles.On it's own ,the stop start technique didn't work for me but when I look back now I realise that I was totally inept and out of my depth dealing with a pulling dog for the first time in my life.I wasn't training the technique properly because I didn't know myself how to,do it properly,I lacked consistency for sure ( I still do to be honest at times :-[) I went hardcore with Dex,he was just not allowed to pull...but he had to be excercised and I face challenges here with off lead walking opportunities ,I don't have a lot of hours in the day where it's a safe temperature to walk him and dogs have to be on the lead citywide,there are few off lead options. So,I bought a gentle leader head collar and a front fastening harness both devices to help reduce/stop pulling.If I had to have Dexter walk on a lead that was how we did it.Separately I was training a 'walk' command which meant walk by my side on a loose lead and as I mentioned I used Pippas articles for that.Ideally I drove Dexter to an off lead area and let him have his walk like that ....totally reducing the opportunity for him to pull me along like a trailing boulder! Something to add about additional factors that made this difficult for me......My husband was one ;D I love him dearly and he loves Dexter but he insisted on using an extendable lead.....I threw it away because it was totally sabotaging my attempts....if your dog is pulling you,an extendable lead gives them a lot more control over their walk...they pull,you give them a bit more slack....great from the dogs point of view!Chris also refused to use the head collar....at first I had a meltdown and he came around to my point of view ( at this point a trainer had told me to stop Allowing Chris to walk him :'() so this is something to think about,do you have anyone else walking Ruby?if you do then they HAVE to be doing the same thing as you.....If not you can still get there,I am proof of that but it takes a lot longer.another thing was walking with other dogs....Being keen to socialize Dexter and expose him to as many dogs as I could I didn't stop doing this,which now that I look back I wish I had.It diluted my training considerably ,I didn't like Dexter having the head collar on when he was with other dogs in case he felt constrained and I felt like a pAin stopping and starting and changing direction so Dexter got to do his own thing,I definately wouldn't do that if I had my time again. I broke the the grab the treat and pull cycle with the clicker,I don't know if you use one but it made a huge difference....you spend your whole walks counting steps and building up distance for a while but it works ;D Given the freedom to do it,Dexter would still pull gleefully and give any Husky a run for their money even now....he still requires management ,instruction and plenty of praise and rewards,he is rewarded for nice walking,not for not pulling ,so as we trundle along on a loose lead being pals and having a nice time,I'll give him a treat and say 'good walk' ,also if he gets to the end of the lead and feels tension and corrects himself I give him a reward,if he pulls considerably and doesn't correct himself I stomped until he gives me slack,then we head off again,his reward them is forward motion,or the sniff he just has to get to :I don't think I'll ever walk without chicken ;D but that's ok for me. Julie speaks the truth,it's time consuming and actually quite draining at first but it does get better.Have a look on the main site there is a lot about getting a good heel position ( I'm currently revisiting that : but for a different reason) and training a loose lead. Good luck and check in if you need help Angela x
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hi Veela, I hope this article will help you: Walking your Labrador on a loose lead
Re: Walking loosely on the lead [quote author=Rosie link=topic=7184.msg98920#msg98920 date=1406968435] However, it absolutely does NOT work if there are dogs around - he is desperate to go and say hello to any other dog within 50 yards. [/quote] This was a big challenge for us. First my dog had to be able to walk on a loose lead reliably without other dogs around. If he couldn't without other dogs, sure as eggs is eggs he wouldn't when he saw another dog. I just about manged to deal with other on lead dogs on my own - treats for attention on me and ignoring the other dogs. Keeping Charlie walking nicely on lead when other dogs are off lead I found impossible to solve on my own. I had to find a trainer who brought out a well behaved dog and we walked round and round that dog while it was sat still, then walking at heel, then walking towards Charlie and on and on. I have another 10 sessions to go, where the number of dogs will increase, and the level of difficulty will increase. But the technique was the same - Charlie pulled, I stopped. The key was having a trained dog that would not run over to Charlie while he was pulling. That's a disaster. And it's the hardest thing to prevent happening when out and about on a normal walk for me. We could not have cracked this bit without a trainer and trained dogs I don't think.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Our dog wasn't a determined puller but we do have to revisit our heelwork every now and then. The only thing that worked was stopping and refusing to move. I still do that and Riley looks round at me sorrowfully and pops himself back into the heel position patience and consistency are the key and he'll walk in anything....collar, harness, slip lead, retractable lead or fixed....it's all about the training if you're looking for a replacement for your extendable to remove the tension in the lead (a good idea while training I think) you can get a nice padded lead that clips at various points so that it can be a 3 or 6 feet long. That's enough for a sniff and a rummage if you don't want to let your dog off but want them to have a bit of freedom ;D good luck !!
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Thanks everyone - it's given me a lot to think about. I think we'll persevere with the harness for a while. My thinking is that we might swap when she's bigger if it's still a problem but I don't like the idea of her pulling against her neck in puppy giddiness and just thinking we're being mean. Once she has the idea of what is expected of her, fair enough, I suppose. I'm confused about the issue with the extendable lead - I don't walk her on it, just swap to it when we get to open grass so she can run about without letting her off the lead. Otherwise it seems too long for her to concentrate. I do a bit of off lead training in the garden too to get her into the habit of walking at heel.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead It might be that the extendable lead is different enough for her to know it's...well...different. The concern with it is that it confuses the dog. Sometimes she is not allowed to surge forward (ie pull on a normal lead) and then, suddenly, if she surges forward (on an extendable lead) the reward is more freedom. It's much easier for a pup to learn if the rules are always the same when she is on a lead.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Ah, I see. Oh, not really sure what to do. The vet said to keep her on a lead until 18 months, plus she's not reliable enough at recall (and would be hopeless around other dogs). If I only have the short lead she won't get as much exercise. I do make her sit before I change the lead but perhaps it is confusing?
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hi Veela, Keeping your dog on a lead until 18 mths is a pretty bad idea! How do you develop recall? I know that wasn't your initial posting, but have you read Attention New Puppy Owners! Let Your Puppy Off The Lead? I can highly recommend Pippa's book Total Recall if you are having problems with this. jac
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Jac is absolutely right - your pup is still very young. Buy a copy of total recall, read it (of course ;D), choose a safe place where there aren't many other dogs, and get your pup off the lead. It'll be the best thing you do for the whole of her life. Best of luck with it.
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Whole heartedly agree with letting your dog off lead to train a good recall. We have a rescue Labrador x Pointer that we got at 9 months who had NO recall whatsoever and was an absconder (we weren't told ), it has taken more than 2 years to train a recall in Charlie which we only did by joining this forum, buying Pippa's Total Recall, a whistle and lots of juicy treats and off we went. Believe me it will be the best thing you do for your puppy now rather than have to work your backside off later on with an older dog with no off lead experience Is there a reason why your vet advised keeping your dog on lead til 18 months? Good luck with your training x
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hi, We're still working on decent loose-lead walking. It's a long process (not at all like the simple commands such as Sit or Down) but with consistency you will see steady progress. Good luck. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7184.msg99111#msg99111 date=1407009787]... Buy a copy of total recall, read it (of course ;D), choose a safe place where there aren't many other dogs, and get your pup off the lead. It'll be the best thing you do for the whole of her life. ...[/quote] This is the approach that we took and I'm glad that we did - we now have a fantastic recall (we're still working to improve it with additional proofing but that's the nature of dog training )
Re: Walking loosely on the lead I don't usually reply when I'm on my phone as it's so fiddly ... But just had to When I read the vet told you to keep Your pup on lead until 18 months I just had to !!! Thank goodness you have come to the forum Veela ;D I know things can be different in different parts of the world but that is really baaaaaaad advice With some planning and care your dog should be off lead and exploring her world ( whilst learning her recall of course ;D) you've already had some good advice on how to start off. For now, I would say ditch the extendable lead until she is walking on lead better and just have her either on/ or off lead. Good luck, let us know how you get on
Re: Walking loosely on the lead Hi there, our pup is about 22 weeks and we have been at classes for a while. Our trainer is excellent and only uses positive training methods. I have had dogs in the past and been to classes that were "old school " and did not use those methods. Anyhow I have learnt a lot. Also Meg is my first lab. What I have learnt is that lead pulling is totally normal. It cant be fixed quickly. Its a training issue that takes patience and time. Meg is just on a normal collar and lead and with hard work she is improving. She is young yet and is your pup. This biggest lesson I have learnt with my new generation pup is let your dog off the lead as soon as they can go out. I SO thank Pippa and this forum for teaching me that. Meg has an awesome recall (I read Total recall) and is off the lead every walk. She is a star . This all takes, time patience and training. I also have to say that is the fun part as with a dog so young results shows quickly. We walked yesterday with my 2 6 year old boys, another family with a crazy cocker along a river bank with every distraction under the sun. She never let her eyes off me. Enjoy your pup, read lots and give her time to learn.
