Last night Finn and I went to gundogtraining. Finn likes it very much, and is very eager to train. So much that he starts barking as soon as a dummy drops and someone has to retrieve it. I often go away then, leaving the group behind us and do some steadiness excersises. As soon as I want to return to the group Finn starts barking again, and pulling very hard, so hard that I can’t hold him. Also when doing excersises in a line and one by one retrieve a dummy (on turn) Finn pulls himself loose and goes for the dummy. I can’t hold him.. When we just started some weeks ago, one of the others told me to put an e-collar (anti-bark belt) on, which I will never do! Yesterday the trainer told me that I am too soft, last week I was not clear enough....etc. Last night she took the leash and put it on Finns nose like a halti. Finn hated this and start trying to get it off, hurting himself by scratching his gums with his dew claw. It was bleeding. I wanted to get it off, the trainer told me not too! I must tell you also that I told the trainer that I have syringomyelia and because of this I don’t have strength in my hands to hold him, and that when he pulls so hard I get hurt... When I came home my DH could tell I was very upset. Tears were in my eyes.. Just wondering now to stop and look for something else to do with Finn....
May be speak to the trainer and say you were unhappy with the way they handles Finn. Does Finn only behave like this at training? Or is it everytime you get dummys out even when you practise at home?
Oh my goodness I sympathise with you - Pongo is just like this whenever we are in a group situation (barkbarkbark, pull pull pull, impossible to hold). He nearly always breaks away from me and gallops off to cause havok somewhere. It is very hard to train out because it ONLY happens in group classes where there are other things going on. And it is very, very embarrassing. And you are not alone in crying about it..... several times I have driven away from an agility class in floods of tears, sobbing my heart out to Pongo!!! My thoughts on your situation: 1 - that is very bad behaviour from your trainer. I'd suggest you walk away now. Finn is not at fault, he is just being himself, and you are not at fault because you will not cause pain to your dog. That trainer is simply wrong. 2 - when you do find another fun thing to take Finn to, treat it as partly an opportunity to address this behaviour, and tell your trainer and the other class members that that is what you are doing. I think another class would be a great chance to gradually teach Finn to be calmer and quieter - and not embarrassing for you if everyone understands what you are aiming to do. 3 - as suggestions for what else to do.....well of course it depends what is available near you. Perhaps agility? (Pongo LOVES this). Or flyball; or scentwork; or mantrailing (we're just about to try some of this); or even just advanced obedience classes? Or perhaps a different gundog trainer? One thing I would say is to check out with any class what the trainer's attitude is. I took Pongo to agility classes two years ago, and he loved it (and so did I, despite the "floods of tears" occasions in the early days!). That trainer absolutely understood that we were there to have fun, that the dogs had to enjoy it or it was pointless, and that when things went wrong the best solution was to laugh about it (because otherwise you'd cry!!). She then stopped training and the class was taken over by her boss, who took everything much more seriously. She was a very expert trainer - wins lots of prizes - but less tolerant of dogs like Pongo (and people like me) who wanted to enjoy the sessions. I went to two classes, but then chose to leave - and that was the right decision. The original trainer has just now started classes again quite near me, so we have signed up again and went to first class last week....and it was great. So....I would suggest talking to any trainer right at the beginning about what YOU want to get out of the class, talk about Finn's over-excitedness, talk about how you'd like to use the class partly as a chance to help him with that, and emphasise that you are at the class so that you and your dog can have an enjoyable time together. See what the reaction is, and decide whether that approach will work for you. So sorry that you and Finn have had such a bad experience. Don't let it upset you too much - it just shows that unfortunately that trainer is not the right person for you or Finn. There will be something better just round the corner!
I have come across gundog trainers who do the same thing with the leash - personally I would look for another trainer, in my experience trainers like that are not particularly interested in listening to other people's opinions. It's such a shame that our lovely enthusiastic dogs are treated like this.
Poor you, I sympathise too and have walked away from Gundog trainers and Agility due to their "handling/training" techniques. Maybe going to a positive only group class that will allow you to do calming exercises with Finn before you join in. You could take great treats and maybe clicker train for calmness around other dogs at a distance, slowly moving nearer over time to desensitise him? It sounds like some of the other handlers aren't too nice either, upsetting for you. I hope you manage to sort something. xx
I agree with what the others have said. Remember, when it comes to our dogs, there is no such thing as "bad behaviour", it's all simply "behaviour". We can take information from that and adjust accordingly. His behaviour says to me that he's likely either over-aroused or frustrated. He's telling you that he can't cope in this environment. So, as @charlie says, you need to work on managing his excitement and/or frustration levels and building these slowly so that he can keep his head from exploding. Luna found it incredibly difficult to be with Willow and Shadow when they were training at first. Her frustration tolerance was incredibly low. This time last year, if I took her out with them, she'd be screaming and thrashing at the lead almost immediately. Now, she will sit and watch very calmly. In some cases, I can even have her calmly sat on a raised bed or table while I run a few agility obstacles with the others, and throw a ball as a reward. She's learnt that her turn will come, and she's been rewarded a lot for calmness. I didn't do that by keeping her in that over-exciting environment - we learnt that it was too much for her, so we went back to basics and built it up very, very slowly. We still have a way to go, don't get me wrong, but the picture can be changed quite easily. It just takes patience and going at your dog's pace. It does not need you to be hard on your dog or use painful corrections. I would also remember, you are your dog's advocate. You are the paying customer. Your dog is your responsibility and, if we want to be blunt, your property. Your trainer cannot force you do anything to your dog that you are not happy with. You need to be strong and stand up for your dog if something is unacceptable. The worst thing that will happen is that he says you're not welcome in class anymore. Well, that's certainly not the end of the world if he won't alter his methods to suit his students! Good luck; I hope you find a way of making it work there, or a more suitable trainer for you and your dog.
Hi @Anne123 , just to say sorry you had this experience, you had been enjoying it so much. It's so annoying and frustrating when if a dog doesn't behave in a way the trainer wants it is then the dog that gets blamed, rather than using a different approach to harness that enthusiasm. You have my sympathy. I think you have excellent advice in all the above replies.
I told her. She then said I was too soft! When you know I started more than 20 years ago with old school obedience classes with a Dobermann school, you also know that I am not a softy, but try to avoid this by doing positive training and reward positive behavior. She says I am doing it wrong, so I believe she is very much old school. And not, as the website says.... Finn is doing this only in this group. At home he is doing great. When I practice he is very eager too, and isn’t barking, just very keen to do his best!
thank you all for the good advice! I thought it was me, it doesn’t feel right. My husband says not to make hasty decisions and wait until I am calmed down...
How dare she treat you and Finn this way , this is shocking behaviour ! Sounds to me like Finn is doing very well at home , without the stress ! x
I think this is quite an easy decision to make. The trainer suggested that you should hurt your dog. No. So.... wait til your are calmed down and THEN decide to leave!
Hi Anne Finn sounds very much like Harvey - plenty of intelligence and ability but a little lacking in steadiness I completely agree with what the others have said. I also suspect that you already know what it is that you should do but were seeking some reassurance and support so ... I think you should you should find another trainer! Good luck.
What a terrible experience for you and your dog! To be honest, I'd have ended up being arrested for assault if someone treated one of my dogs in that fashion. Neither of you should have been treated like that! P.S. I do not condone violence.
So sorry this has happened to you and Finn. Hurting a dog who's owner has entrusted you to help them is wrong and very unprofessional. I would find a better and more understanding training. You've always been so kind to me so I just want to return the kindness and say big hugs to you and Finn. I hope you can find a better trainer. Xx
Oh what a dreadful experience, I can only echo the previous posts and definitely would get a new trainer. I hope you and Finn are okay. Xx
So sorry to hear about this terrible experience that you and Finn had. Walk away now. You are both worth more than this class. I am sure there is another better group of people that you and Finn can go to. Hope you are both ok now.
So sorry to hear that you and Finn have been put through this . I would walk away if it was me in this situation. Having health issues myself does hamper things and makes it slightly harder to train some things, but old fashioned methods are not the way to go. Big hugs x
Another Gundog trainer and time should make all the difference. My last Lab was like yours, but he turned out to be a super dog, just too enthusiastic to start with. Take heart.
You're right to listen to your gut, you know that this class isn't right for Finn. I'm so shocked that so many trainers in so many countries are unable to deal with anything but a straightforward, easy dog.
