What would you have done ?

I'm pretty sure I just messed up but I didn't know what to do. :-\ so I was wondering what you all would've done.

I will describe what happened as briefly as possible. :

Big walk and we stopped half way around to talk to my friend over her yard gate. Her friend from further down the lane who she rides with was also there. As we talked another lady who lives down the lane appeared on the road with a gorgeous 6 month old yellow lab. Very beautiful and very bouncy on the longest lead imaginable and she didn't appear to have any control as it dragged her towards us.

Scott and scout actually behaved quite well. They did pull me wanting to get to this pup but in a very friendly excited way. Possibly first mistake I didn't let them go to the pup (female) for a few reasons.

First of all three bouncy excited dogs on leads could be chaos especially as this woman didn't seem to have a clue. It was obvious I was trying to keep my dogs back but she kept letting the pup lunge towards us.

Second S&S may well have met the pup very friendly and all be ok but they could also have met friendly then got nervy and started to bark.

Third I've never been comfortable with dogs meeting on leads. I think it's because of the number of times my old lab was attacked by dogs on leads. S&S don't get up close to many dogs on leads due to their nervous disposition anyway.

Unfortunately because this pup continued to be allowed to lunge at us S&S ended up barking. By this point they where sat by me (it hadn't taken long to get their focus back) I told them no and they stopped. I think Scott's bark might have been frustration not sure about scout he did his elvis impression his top lip curled a little bit :

The riding lady then said to the pup lady she was lucky she hadn't got one from where I did and that she'd never known labs with such bad unfriendly temperaments. To be fair S&S really don't like her and always bark if she comes near. Never understood why perhaps they picked up her opinion. . I was them told I was projecting on to the dogs and some other profound words of wisdom.

She did have a point but what I found irritating is they have 3 pet dogs which never get walked and I mean never and 2 sheep dogs one on its last warning for biting people and not the first time they've had a dog on a final warning.

Sorry I've waffled a lot. It's just left me feeling flat and not sure. I'd love my dogs to have the typical lab temperament, it's there somewhere I see it every so often, but they don't so we are doing our best with what we've got. At the start of the walk we'd met two lots of reactive dogs and ignored them. I just wish I could crack the human bit. :-\

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Oh Jen, please don't feel upset, again it's other people getting in the way of training Firstly the lady with the puppy should not have had it on a very long lead in the first place as not only is she not teaching her pup correctly she placed you, S&S in an awkward situation. I'm with you I don't really like on lead greets and I think it was Rachael that said, correct me if I'm wrong Rachael, that dogs should not be put in that position in the first place as it does create a different response in most dogs even the nicest calmest ones.

As for the riding lady, I wouldn't have held my tongue and would have told her to practise what she preaches and get her own dogs in order and maybe walking them wouldn't have resulted in them biting humans maybe out of frustration and lack of socialisation. Sorry Jen but people like that get right up my nose

And lastly, you are doing an amazing job with your boys to try to improve their behaviour and hats off to you, it's difficult enough to change behaviours and your friend should be understanding and supportive of you. I have encountered people like this and I now just tell them if they have nothing nice to say keep quiet.

You keep going Jen give those busy bodies something to talk about when you have cracked it and you WILL xxx

 

Re: What would you have done ?

This made me laugh, Jen - sorry, you probably think that's a bit heartless but that woman sounds like the "professional advisor" type that I meet so often! I meet them less these days, probably because I don't give people so much chance to give me an ad hoc lecture on how to handle my dog (I feel I pay enough people to do that already ).

Honestly, the gobbledegook some people come out with is unbelievable.

Charlie does not get to say hello on lead - ever. I just say "no, we won't say hello", "no, we really won't", "yes, I know he only wants to say hello, but that's not the point"....and so on. So I don't think you did anything wrong. Although you perhaps could have walked away or told the woman with the lunging dog not to come any closer.

In terms of the friend of a friend, it's a good, therapy to make careful note of all the things you wish you had said - then cross out the really rude and undignified ones - but next time, say the rest. ;D ;D ;D

 

Re: What would you have done ?

I cant add to whats already been said Jen, except that I think you were incredibly restrained, given the comments to you, people can be so terribly rude and hurtful , there simply is no need for it , hugs to you xx

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Try to brush it off and next time you see annoying riding lady, remember an urgent appointment and get outa there!

((hugs)) for you.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Some people really should say stuff in their heads before speaking out loud. My brother does similar when ever we visit trying to tell me everything I all ready know and lecturing me on all things lab! I hope you're not too upset by her stupid comment

 

Re: What would you have done ?

I think you handled it extremely well, Jen. Don't know how you could've done I differently. Maybe exit the scene before Bouncy Puppy got close but you didn't really know that Bouncy Puppy Lady was going to allow herself to be dragged ALL the way over to you..!!

The people who should be doing the self examination are Bouncy Puppy Lady (who is destined for a lifetime of being taken for walks by her dog) and Snooty Horsey Lady who was just plain rude.

Your dogs are very well trained and you've done an amazing job with them.

Personally, I don't do on-lead greetings. We move to the side and sit and wait till the other dog is gone or we cross the road or whatever. As Helen mentioned I don't think it's a situation that allows for normal dog behaviour, so we just avoid it. The exceptions are his dog walker walks, where he walks in a group with up to 16 other dogs (but he is much better for the dog walker than for me!!).

 

Re: What would you have done ?

I think you did really well Jen not sure I wouldn't of responded, and not nicely!

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Thank you all very much. ;D

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't do on lead greeting I did wonder if I'd got that wrong even though I know how leads can alter body language etc.

When the puppy lady appeared my first thought was to leave. Unfortunately my escape route very quickly disappeared due to the length of lead the puppy had and we sort of got stuck in a corner. Not really the best place to be with two reactive dogs. :

Considering the situation I was quite pleased with how S&S behaved. ;D

My friend is the one we walk with in a morning with her rotties. She is very good at sticking up for S&S and defended them for me. ;D. She's known them from pups so has seen them at their worse and how much they've improved. She even tells me off when I call them little monsters she thinks they are very good. : Of course she says goodbye after an hour.

Most of the time I let the comments go over my head but occasionally they hit home especially when other people have no room to talk or don't understand. This behaviour altering lark is a long slog and it happens so slowly you have to remind yourself that there is improvement but it can feel sole destroying somedays especially when you get 'clever' comments.

Sorry I've moaned at you all but you've all cheered me up thank you ;D. I will go and do some training with my gorgeous little monsters in the sunshine.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

You showed amazing tact and restraint! I would not have done nearly as well. People are just amazingly clueless sometimes.

Lori

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Oh yes I would have suggested she worry about her own dogs and leave me to deal with mine. Don't let it get you down, I am in awe of the progress you've made with two dogs let alone one!

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Crikey I think you showed amazing restraint! I really hate it when people offer "professional" advice when not actually asked for...I have one lady who takes her hunting spaniels out, she is a gun dog trainer (apparently) her spaniels do their hunting about 15 feet from her and this drives Benson to distraction if we meet her...she always frowns at me, to cap it all Bensons recall goes to pieces if we bump into her...irritatingly when this happens she just stalks off..with Benson... :-[ .I know what you mean about the flat feeling though, it knocks my confidence when this sort of thing happens, even though it shouldn't.
Sometimes I think people just see a snapshot of our dogs and judge all our training efforts based on this.. it may simply be a moment where we make a mistake, not getting back on lead quick enough because we didn't see their dogs on leads, or our dogs may be having a hoolie moment, it happens we are not all perfect.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Hi Jen,

I posted this in another thread but it may be relevant here too - at the very least it may make you smile. Many years ago one of my teachers said that in these situations you should ask yourself :
'Do I value the opinion of the person that is speaking? If yes, then, painful as it may be, take note of what they say and give it due consideration. If not, then it is just background noise - treat it accordingly!'

Also, with regards to [quote author=Jen link=topic=7028.msg95905#msg95905 date=1405853392]...To be fair S&S really don't like her and always bark if she comes near. Never understood why perhaps they picked up her opinion.[/quote]
The more I read, the more I'm convinced that dogs are far more perceptive than we often give them credit for. People often 'say' a great deal more with their body language than with their words and our dogs excel at picking-up on this. So, S&S may well have observed her general attitude towards them and are simply returning the message back to her.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Gosh Jen, I think you were very restrained.
You have achieved huge things with your two, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
x

 

Re: What would you have done ?

I really don't see what else you could have done. You controlled your dogs. Ok they were a bit vocal, but many dogs are.

The puppy should not have been allowed to lunge at S&S. You cannot always control a dog, even when it's on a lead, but in my opinion it is the dog owners responsibility to try.

There was no excuse for the abuse and carachter assassination she subjected you to.

The heat is making a lot of people tetchy, she's probably feeling embarrassed now.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Aww, sorry you had to deal with this, Jen. I wish we could have all popped up in the background to show this lady all the many posts I which you have explained all the training you have done with your two and the progress you've made and the questions you have about how to fix this or that or do this or that better....honestly most people have no idea how much time it can take to train a dog properly. Hold your head high, Jen, you are doing a wonderful job with your two and they are so lucky to have you to teach them how to be more comfortable around the things that scare them!

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Thank you all very much your support means a lot and helps so much. ;D

Its probably not always a good thing but in situations where I need to bite my tongue I usually make light of it so people probably don't think it bothers me. :

I don't now why it still surprises me that some people aren't bothered about how there dogs behave. If Scott and scout had towed me like that at 6 months I'd have been flat on my face. When scout did his elvis impression the woman then tried to get her puppy away obviously a bit worried but if she'd had even some control scout wouldn't have felt the need to curl his lip. :

I agree it's always the owners responsibility to keep control of their dog which is why S&S reactivity bothers me so much. I could take the attitude of those dog owners that aren't bothered and let them bark and react or give up and only walk on our land. It would be a lot easier but I can't that wouldn't solve the problem so I will keep trying. It's a lot easier with all you behind me thank you.

Uncle Bob you make an excellent point. I will remember that one. I think I hear a lot of background noise.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

Hi Jen, I thought I had replied to this but obviously not.

I always find it hard to know what to do in these sorts of situations. I find most of Penny's issues come from other dogs and their owners - for example your situation with someone obviously not in control of their dog.

The thing I find the hardest is telling the truth - for example if Penny kicks off at another dog I just laugh it off to the other person and say 'come on hobby' and take her away. What I really should be doing is explaining her anxiety issues and that them allowing their dog to rush up uncontrolled makes her problems worse, however sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have to exain myself and I just wish people were more considerate. Unfortunately some people seem to think that type of behaviour is ok. I wish I could be as straight talking in real life as some of you here seem to be!

 

Re: What would you have done ?

I'm exactly the same Lauren. :. I will make a joke of it and call them little monsters when actually they wouldn't have behaved like that it the other person had a bit of common sense.

 

Re: What would you have done ?

The woman's an idiot. You presumably don't value her opinion, because she is an idiot. So whenever she opens her mouth in future, repeat to yourself: "this woman is an idiot, and she is entirely insignificant to me."

Let her waffle on, it is just background noise.

(I have the mantra "insignificant... insignificant... insignificant...." ready at the back of my mind for such occasions. The world has several idiots in it.)