[quote author=JulieT] She also wants a "no chase" rule in place completely. [/quote] That is probably what I need Julie. So how do you start with this? Okay, so realistically, I'm not sure if it's more recall with distractions and proofing, or teaching steadiness, or a combination of both with other stuff chucked in too. Lilly definitely has self-rewarding, sniffing around, sometimes quite some distance from me behaviour. I am not looking for or wanting a dog that is glued to my side. She has a bit of a stop command, but always looks around first to make sure I am not doing it to stop her doing something interesting. I worry about working on the instant sit, which I know how to do (in theory) by shaping with the clicker but don't want to push in view of her HD. She is not a natural retriever, so we have never really looked at developing steadiness, rather encouraging keenness. The biggest problem is that I may lack the time and inclination to put in enough work to achieve good results. So, in theory, how could I develop a "No Chase Rule"?
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" I'm sure you'll get more experienced replies... No chase means just that - no chasing anything at all. No balls, no birds, no rabbits...no other dogs (unless released to play for a game). We've got a grip on the staying close thing now, so Charlie stays within 15m of me at all times - and we are using a long line, where I know that he would leg it to another dog (on the beach). He doesn't walk to heel all the time off lead, I allow him to "free run" so long as he stays within 15m, but my ambition is that he will come to heel when asked regardless of the distraction. I think it's a combination of all you mention. Steadiness to the things he will chase is key. Balls and other dogs are our problem so working super hard on not reacting to these. Managing his arousal so he doesn't expect to chase, and relaxes. Then working on obeying commands - walk at heel, stop whistle, recall - when the things he wants to chase or run to (balls and other dogs) are around. Teaching steadiness to rabbits and birds is done in a special pen with cover for the rabbits and birds. I'm just reading about it now. But completely outside my experience...I had to google "rabbit pen". It's not one of those wire mesh things in pets at home! ;D ;D ;D
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" This is all part of what gundog trainers mean by steadiness Jac. So we start with steadiness to fall. Falling dummies first, then balls as they are more exciting. First whilst sitting, then later whilst moving. Steadiness to other dogs, starting with other dogs being walked around, then recalled then eventually watching other dogs retrieve (honouring) Steadiness to game, initially in a pen with the dog sitting or at heel, and eventually steadiness to shot and flush. It's all about impulse control. The dog suppresses his own impulses to act, and looks to his handler for permission instead. Steadiness to other dogs and people is often very hard for pet dog owners, because their dogs have usually been allowed to greet and play, on impulse, with other dogs from a young age. Some dogs are much harder to steady to game as they have a very powerful natural chase instinct.
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Hope you don't mind me asking a question Jac.? This is something I could do to do more work on. :. My two are also very good at the self rewarding sniffing lark. How did you train the staying close Julie ?
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Jac I read about Lilly's adventures with interest because if we have hopes of ever bringing Dexter back with us I'm going to have these chasing issues I'm sure.....he won't remember even seeing a cow,what he's going to make of rabbits,squirrels ,deer etc I just don't know.same as Lilly,hunting,sniffing and investigating are so much more interesting than retrieving .We don't see anything except cats on our walks and he can't be trusted not to chase if he's off lead.On lead I can just about manage with Look at Me but he's fighting the desire to dance around the whole time.....My list of things to work on grows ever longer ,but this is something that I need to stop ignoring because I could very well find myself in trouble with it.....or even in the next County when he spots Bambi! Good luck x
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" [quote author=Jen link=topic=7105.msg97356#msg97356 date=1406390851] How did you train the staying close Julie ? [/quote] Staying within the 15m? At first I had to use my recall at 15m which wasn't great - I felt it damaged my recall by constantly using it to pull him back from exploring (when he had been released to do so). So I mainly made sure good things happen within the 15m. Retrieves, games, treats delivered in the most exciting way possible. To the extent that now, he'll get to 15m, turn round, sit and look at me expecting something good to happen. : I spent hours on this. Really, hours. I also just stopped walking if he went outside 15m. Just stopped. So then he'd stop too and try to work out how to make me continue the walk (soon figured out the key was staying closer). Then my stop whistle improved so I could use that too (which he loves as right now it only means I walk to him to send him to a retrieve or give him chicken). Finally, the trainer had me do a 2 pip "change direction" whistle, which I use now say if he is heading for the river but I don't want him to jump in or he is going a little too far.
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Tatze stays within 10m of me all the time. I have always made sure no walk is predictable (as suggested by Pippa in Total Recall) I go to woods, reservoirs, rivers, moors, parks - you name it! I change direction unexpectedly without warning and without a sound. This has ensured that Tatze constantly checks up on where I am and stays close, but not so close she can't have fun
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Thank you Julie. I'm going to have a go at that. I think it will take a very long time though : It's brilliant he will stop himself at 15m. I guess I can dream. Changing direction will work unless they are on a particularly interesting scent. That is the difficult bit.
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Thanks guys. So, perhaps - [li]Doing some ball/dummy chucking in the garden and working on a wait then release? (OMG Georgie SO needs to learn THAT one!!)[/li] [li]And long lead on walks with a recall as soon as she gets to the end - or at the very least a look at me cue?[/li] That is within my capabilities I think, though in the morning I am not that compos mentis for training - having said that, early morning IS deer-time. OK - shall do some work see what progress I make, and Sophie of course. Might need to wait until next week to get undivided attention. Many thanks for that.
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" I don't know whether steadiness to ball chucking would help Lilly if she is not that bothered (it helps Charlie because a moving ball is the most tempting thing to him - more so than other dogs). Keeping her close on walks should help because then your closeness give you more control. If you wanted her not to chase wildlife though, I guess you have to put her in a place where she can see wildlife (perhaps a long way away at first) and reward her for losing interest...a lot easier said than done, wildlife not being generally co-operative with things like this. Dunno though...I've not got passed a bouncing tennis ball myself...
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Lilly is a bit fragile at the moment thanks to some argy-bargy with her visitor so after she went off piste this morning briefly in the woods I put her on lead so she wouldn't end up limping again. There was clearly deer activity and she was doing a lot of that heavy sniffing that is almost like honking I am thinking if I can work on a "look at me command" in that situation then that would be a good start. I am dangerously hopeless with 2 dogs though ;D I agree Julie that steadiness to the ball is not going to be the answer but it might vive Lilly an idea of what I want. Maybe.......
Re: Working on the "No Chase Rule" Ah, sorry to hear Lilly has been over doing it. Hope she's ok. Yes, I should think working on commands as soon as Lilly is aware of deer would help a lot. I couldn't manage with 2 dogs when Charlie needs so much right now - even though I want to foster, and have a second dog, that just has to wait a bit.
