Whilst our loose lead walking isn't bad at all now and we walk on a normal snap fastening collar and lead ......I haven't made the progress I want with Dexter reacting to other dogs on lead and off. It's made me feel a bit low to be honest so I've been reading up and researching around town to see if I can find someone to help me. What we have improved on is walking past dogs known and unknown on lead that don't react to us.we still need about a 10 m distance and I keep him moving with 'look at me' but we can get past without the rasping breathing starting and the full alert body language= GOOD Dogs we come upon by surprise = nightmare still....I can't get the swift turn trained through lack of practice opps and Dexter instantly goes right to the end of the lead and I can't break his stare ( Scout and Scott would HATE him Jen)without luring him round to me!we aren't making progress from this state of affairs .So I called a dog trainer last week from a positive training establishment.She came out on a walk with me and watched us.....we only met dogs on lead we know so there was no problem : She has told me to improve his focus on me and I agree that it could do with being tighter so we've gone right back to what I feel is being a treat dispenser.Our lead walks since Tuesday feel like it has been me walking looking down at Dex and him walking along eyes fixed on the treat bag with occasional glances at me.....I feel like we have gone backwards but I'm told this can be expected......we are doing lots of clicker sessions through the day for eye contact on me . To increase my practice opportunities I'm going in to see the trainer a couple of times this week to practice our lead walking and recall around different kinds of dogs .....I hope this will move us forwards. Dexter is so dog focused and I've said it before ,he has bad manners.When we are in a off lead playing situation and a new dog arrives,all Dexter wants to do is get over to that dog ,he has no focus on his existing playmates or toys and very little on me .His approach can be intimidating.....he lies down ,but he stares hard at the new dog,I need advice on that and I'm hoping the dog trainer can help me.I always feel like I am on high alert vigilance to call him back and put him on lead before he sees a new dog arrive ....which most times I manage successfully.I stand no chance if he's seen the new dog.This is something I want to work with with the trainer too. Recall,recall,recall! I feel like I am the only person in the park that has to watch their dog everyone else seems to be relaxed and chatting and I'm always keeping an eye on Dexter to pre-empt a run in at a new dog. Walking in company is also something that I'm hoping I can practice in a 121 lesson.Dexter still doesn't get that loose lead walking applies when we are walking with someone else with an on lead dog....if I'm chatting and not concentrating on him he gradually starts creeping into a pull.This has made me really glum recently too as it's a part of owning a dog that I really looked forward to.I feel at the moment I need to stop walking with friends ....l really try to engineer it that we just meet in off lead situations but then at some point in the walk a new dog might appear and if I have to put him on his lead....it gets tedious for the other person if I'm stopping all the time to bring him back to heel as he's killing himself to get after his friend who is generally still off lead.....I just feel like Dexter and I are high maintenance and I'm feeling a bit sad about that :'(
Re: Back to School For Us! Angela, I really do feel for you. I still have major problems with Harley pulling on the lead, but hers is constant - we don't need a dog in sight to pull, unless we walk around the block where she knows she isn't going off lead. On our way home, she is brilliant. I think Dexter is gorgeous and you have made massive progress with his lead walking - dont forget that! I hope the dog trainer can help you and Dexter to enjoy your walks more Sending you big hugs xx
Re: Back to School For Us! And I thought Global Moderators had everything sussed. So you are human and imperfect just like me. Seriously though. This is exactly how I feel. I think I SHOULD have much better control over Molly around other dogs. When she sees one she just wants to play and be friendly all the time and I have vanished from her world. I too have had a trainer out. We are training 'look at me' with a Clicker and treats, but when your dog has seen another dog and is going bonkers, co-ordinating the clicker and the treat whilst hanging on for dear life is not easy. All our walks are training walks as I'm on alert all the time. "Close" I say, and pop another treat into her mouth in an attempt to make her walk nicely by my side. The thought of happily chatting whilst my dog potters around is beguiling to say the least! However, I operate a double standard. I expect me and my dog to be perfect, but understand if other people, who are doing their best aren't
Re: Back to School For Us! Oh, big hug, Angela. I really know how you feel, as Obi is very similar to Dexter. I think they would get along great, actually (but Scott and Scout would also think Obi a complete bogan). Really, you could be describing Obi. We have just come back from Flyball practice where he initiated major shouting matches with a Husky and a Border Collie : We recovered and calmed down quickly, but I really felt like giving up. What you are doing WILL work though. It'll give you the capacity to control his attention and to head tense moments off at the pass and to recover quickly if it does get a little out of hand. It all does make you tired though...I so needed a beer when I got home today (and the glass of Kilkenny is going down nicely).
Re: Back to School For Us! Oh Angela, sorry to hear you are feeling down. Keep at it, it will get better. And in my experience male dogs quieten down after about three years old.
Re: Back to School For Us! Thanks Ternaya,I'm sorry you are still having a constant pull,I've gone through that stage and it's not fun....I really sympathise and it does get better ......it's just the unpredictability I need to work on now,I need to get the 'look at me' rock solid to overrule his reaction to what he's is dealing with.....and I have to admit now that I'm not managing to do it and need some experienced eyes on me. [quote author=Mollly link=topic=7808.msg109325#msg109325 date=1410679942] And I thought Global Moderators had everything sussed [/quote] The others have ;D but not this one :-[ I'm definitely in the 'needs improvement category'...... I'm back to clicking and treating......a lot ,to improve 'look at me' and it get it rock solid.I'm disillusioned as I feel like I have gone back steps......but the trainer says if I can improve this ,he will look to me automatically and I can break his focus on the trigger.Im doing what she says as it's all things I know and would expect a positive style trainer to suggest but I feel like I'm back at the 6 /7 month stage again ,walking along clicking and treating and it's making me miserable......all Dexters peers are walking and behaving nicely and predictably in the same situations that he reacts to........I've got it wrong somewhere I know,it's not like I haven't put the time in with him.......I really messed up lead interactions when he was young through ignorance and lack of experience and I'm paying for it now :'( Sorry guys ,I've typed while Karen and Rachael replying,many thanks xxxx I've just carried on and posted as I'm down to 3% on mynipad and my charger is kaput so off to the shops now to get replacement x
Re: Back to School For Us! Awww ((Big Hugs)) I am sure you will get it sorted soon. It sounds a great idea to increase practice opportunities. I can trust Tatze on a collar at all times now except around roads where there may be CATS. If I'm just going a local lead walk I have to put her on her harness as she goes mental when she sees a cat, I have it put two hands on her harness just to walk her past. We had no chance to socialise her with cats, as we don't know any, and any that stray into our garden just run so Tatze thinks they are tremendous fun : ???
Re: Back to School For Us! Ummmm nope! ;D You could have been describing Riley too....... I can now get to about 2-3 metres offlead at heel before he breaks but new, unmet dogs are still our biggest challenge. We've gone back to basics for focus too.....lots of look at me and hand touches, using toys for distractions and rewards. You are definitely NOT alone xxx (And Riley is 3!!!!!)
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=bbrown link=topic=7808.msg109342#msg109342 date=1410682551] You are definitely NOT alone xxx [/quote] Sooooooo not alone! I'm in the same boat as Barbara for un-met dogs. Can't begin to tell you how many times we end up looking a complete mess :. Worst case scenario is M on lead, other dogs off lead in big open space (like a park or, err, a field, like where one does gundog training!!!). But just sometimes it seems like we're winning, and I know if you think about it you have those moments too- you've come so far with Dex . It's really easy for people who do no training to pick on the little things (!) that are still a work in progress with ours - I think it makes them feel better for not bothering at all with their own dogs (like, 'look how much effort she's putting in and it's still not working - so glad I don't bother') Grrrr to them!! We'll keep fighting the good fight because we love our dogs, know what's right and usually have a lot of fun in the process! I'm so hoping you manage to bring Dex over next summer- he and Merla would have a blast ;D ;D ;D
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Karen link=topic=7808.msg109333#msg109333 date=1410681637] And in my experience male dogs quieten down after about three years old. [/quote] I agree, Charlie is 3 1/2 years old and is walking on a flat collar and lead but I use a harness due to his size compared to mine : Angela don't despair your hard work will pay dividends just keep going and never mind all the "perfect" dogs and owners - yeah right no such thing, they don't matter. Remember all the nasty comments we have had about Charlie e.g. "You still training that dog Helen", "give up and rehome him", my reply was "I see you haven't started training your dog yet" Yes their comments really upset me and made me feel low but we knew we wanted to do our very best and hopefully we are. We are lucky as Charlie isn't really bothered about off lead dogs and the 2 dogs that have a mutual dislike for each other on lead we use BAT for and this is really, really helping. It WILL work Angela I know it will so please keep the faith, you are doing an amazing job with Dexter and don't forget he is still young and a LABRADOR!!! Sending you and Dexter massive hugs xxxx
Re: Back to School For Us! I do empathise. I struggle with senior Labrador due to his lack of socialisation from 16 weeks to 8 months re broken elbow and by that age he was so strong that if he pulled I had to lie down on the floor so that I acted as a sort of anchor! He now walks well on the lead but is still difficult to recall if he sees another dog. Like you, I see families on the common who look like they are not the people to even bother to train a dog and their dog is walking close, not looking at other dogs and behaving immaculately, so frustrating when I have to struggle! Number two Lab was brought up differently with a tennis ball as a reward and he is mostly a good boy. Hang in there, you are doing well, Dexter is a Lab and they are not easy due to their happy characteristics and love of life.
Re: Back to School For Us! Oh so not alone! Brodick, at the grand old age of 2.5, having spent his whole life to date ignoring stranger dogs, has decided that he is obsessed with working cockers. He is an absolute chump when we see any, rearing on his back legs in excitement, and if they are being particularly busy and flipping about then he likes to bark in excitement too :. So for the first time in his life he is getting behaviour around other dogs training...I've said this before but I think most folk on this forum fall into the super conscientious category when it comes to our dogs. I know a lot of folk with dogs who have some of the kinds of issue we all talk about on here, and they don't really try to change things, sometimes because they can't be bothered, but sometimes because they just don't see it as anything needing changed, that its just a part of who their dog is. So next time you cringe at Dex lunging just remember somewhere in Scotland someone is hanging onto an enormously tall black Labrador doing an impersonation of a dancing bear
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=bbrown link=topic=7808.msg109342#msg109342 date=1410682551] Ummmm nope! ;D You are definitely NOT alone xxx (And Riley is 3!!!!!) [/quote] Add me to the list (Lilly is 4 and a bit : ) I was thinking this morning after reading Jen's post about being bad mannered by staring, that I needed to add Lilly into that catgory too. It was an on-lead collie first thing this morning....... Do others find their dog lies down in wait until you are ALMOST withing reach of getting them and clipping on the lead, then hare off at a hundred miles an hour towards their potential playmates? : : : :
Re: Back to School For Us! Chin up, Angela! You'll get there. And it's great you've got some help and someone to help with "set ups". I so know what you mean about other dogs looking perfect though. I felt such a dunce at my last gundog class - I had to have Charlie tied to a post on his harness, so he didn't pull me over, and wait for him to choose to eat king prawns instead of look at the dummies across the other side of the field. There were some advanced students there, as well as the beginners, and as they strolled casually around, their dogs off lead and at heel, they all said "how's it going?" as they walked by me. I just had to say "fine" and try to smile as I desperately waved king prawns, pork meatballs, and hunks of roast chicken at the back of Charlie's head.... I hope it gets better as they get older...
Re: Back to School For Us! I so empathise, we are having to go back a few steps with Benson. He is getting VERY excited out on walks, especially new dogs, or new places, he is off to say hello.. We are working on focus..focus...focus on walks with C&T, the other day we were doing so well, and then he just took off! I am hoping it is just his age, and with continued training we can bring this control back a bit.
Re: Back to School For Us! Oh The Forum Love has worked it's magic,thankyou everyone and whilst I don't like to think of any of you having challenges of your own it's good to hear I'm not alone (all your battle story examples have given me a smile ,thankyou ) Rationally I know that but when you feel like you aren't getting anywhere you feel like it's just you!The root of not improving I guess is as simple as not being able to have opportunities to practice and hopefully the new training place I've found can help me with that ....so things can only get better if I'm prepared to put the work in which I am so I need to be getting on with it rather than being frustrated about it!Dexter is going in for some socialization and play observation on Tuesday as the trainer didn't have any opportunity to see him interacting with dogs the night she came out on the walk with me.....( we only met dogs he knows on lead ) and we are going to get some sessions booked and some training goals set so I need to stop feeling frustrated and resentful that we are still a bit of a mess and start feeling positive and energetic about solving our kinks!i will let you all know how it goes ......thanks again everybody and Kath hopefully he will be a lot better by next Summer ( he will nearly be 3 ! ;D) so we would love to get a walk in with you and of course any other forum friends that we can arrange to meet.....if you can handle us ??? Xxx
Re: Back to School For Us! I'm afraid Scott and Sout probably would be terrified of Dex and Obi but I'd love them. ;D I did lots and lots of 'look at me' to the point were walking down our lane Scout is now quite irritating. He's worked out if he looks at me he gets a treat so he loiters behind me so I look around. Bingo eye contact gets a treat. : To be honest in high arousal situations it doesn't always work instantly but they will look at me. It also doesn't always stop them reacting if the other dog is reacting. :-\ What does Dex do if he gets chance to greet the new dog off lead ? Those people with those perfect dogs are irritating. I wonder sometimes if it's because they just don't worry about it. They don't see it as a problem so they don't stress about it the dog doesnt keep getting called back or put on lead so the dog appears to behave better. :-\ Unfortunately I stress about it : and I'm very conscious of what could happen and always expect and prepare for worse case scenario. : The trainer and mixing with the dogs there should help and give you lots of advice. Let us know how you get on on Tuesday.
Re: Back to School For Us! Ah Angela. So sorry you're feeling down. Don't beat yourself up. It takes a long time to get everything together. I had a tough time with meg as a pup, she was so stubborn with me. Hubs she was fine with. I understand completely how you feel, it just goes to show that each of our furries have got their own personalities and minds. You'll get there in the end. Hugs to you.
Re: Back to School For Us! What I should have added was I still proof my look at me cue whenever and wherever possible just if I think about it I cue it and mark and reward. I don't particularly c&t automatic look at me without a cue. I want it on cue because you can bet when I really want/need them to look at me when we are getting close to a trigger they won't so for me the cue is important to get through to them. It works and does break the focus so don't think your going backwards think of it as continuous training.
Re: Back to School For Us! [quote author=Jen link=topic=7808.msg109446#msg109446 date=1410709859] What does Dex do if he gets chance to greet the new dog off lead? [/quote] Well Jen,I have stopped letting this happen at distance as he was lying flat ,staring very directly and intently and creeping forward in almost a stalk.He would then bomb over like an Exocet missile ,hard and fast and only swerve off at the very last second.....,it's unerving for the other owner at times and he could hurt someone with the speed at which he arrives. Now we walk at heel closer,this can take a while as everytime he puts tension on the lead I stop until he looks at me.I need help with this bit as very often I can't break his stare and have to lure his head round with a treat. We need to make progress from that.We do a circular twirl to reposition and then set off again.When we get close enough he has to sit and look at me to be released .(I've stopped letting him get into the flat position) This makes Dexter 'appear'at least to have better manners and gives me a chance to check in with the owner if the dog is ok to play with.once released He usually goes straight to the back end for a sniff and does the once over and then gets bouncey,jumping around the dog...it goes one of 2 ways then ,he will either be too much for the dog and gets a telling off which he takes and backs off...he's never retaliated or pushed his luck with a warning thankfully or they will proceed to play.If it's not an even match size wise I'm quite involved and interrupt quite a bit as Dexter can get strong and boisterous and isn't good at giving the other dog breaks.......if it's a small dog I can get quite tense,even when the other owner says it's fine....I don't agree, so I always go on the side of caution and make him give the other dogs breaks and use these to practice sits/downs and stays....Dexter does adjust his level of intensity when he is playing with a small dog but I fear him getting rough if he gets overexcited,which he does when it's energetic play with big young dogs.this is something else I want to ask the dog trainer.I want to sit and watch dogs at play and see what is 'normal' .I think my perception may be skewed because he's my first dog.I know some owners think I fuss too much ,but I do always think dexter is the strongest and most boisterous and I'd hate to be thought of as an irresponsible owner who let's her dog get away with bad behavior.....I do this a lot....ie worry about what other dog owners think of us :-[ You'd replied again Jen while I was typing......re rewarding the cue ,that's good advice,I need to get my rewards reduced down again now ,I'll remember that over the next few walks ,thanks xxx
