Can anyone for see any problems this might arise

I have seem many posts and discussions on this site and the Facebook site about cross breeding with Labrador genes however, I feel this is also the best site to get the information I'm looking for.

I own a 2yr old female Dalmador (Dalmatian x Labrador), very intelligent, great temperament and very loyal. I've had cross breed dogs all my life, from the moment I was born to the present day and I've also had pure breed dogs. I give both cross breeds and pure breeds all the love, care and attention I can and they are/have all been fantastic and loyal dogs.

Cross breed or not, we're all here and own dogs because we love dogs... right?


So, I'm looking at buying a puppy tomorrow or friday and I want a pure bred golden Labrador male so that once the Labrador is old enough, both the golden Labrador and my black/white Dalmador (Ruby) can breed.


Can anyone for see any problems (other than them been cross breed puppies) that might come up?
I',m not doing it for profit or any of the sorts, I'm doing it purely because I believe Dalmador's are very loyal and intelligent and a great example of a wonderful cross breed dog. I'm also considering offering puppies to Blind charities so they can be trained to become guide dogs for the blind.

 

Do you mean a yellow labrador or a golden retriever?
I think the usual potential problems would apply like genetically inherited conditions etc. Also i would probably look into supply and demand around sensory/guide dogs. Also if your bitch has puppies I believe its a high intensity time, and then you have to find them all excellent homes, its a big undertaking.
there's probably people on here with far more experience in these matters than me, they might be able to help you out more.

 

Hi and welcome to the forum , are you in the UK ? Our forum believes strongly in the health testing of both prospective parents before mating , this meaning that both must be hip and elbow scored, plus eyes tested for inherited diseases . This ethos is being more and more accepted by a discerning public when choosing a puppy , most buyers asking for proof of testing . Regarding the puppies going to Guide Dogs for the Blind , in the UK , the association uses their own brood bitches and again , very thorough testing is required . I want to be clear that I am not a dog snob ! I own a pedigree Labrador and also a terrier mix of indeterminate origins , but unless you are absolutely set on a mating , I would truly think very hard indeed about every aspect .

 

I've never bred a litter of puppies and have never really had any interest in that side of dog ownership. That said my main concern is with the health of any puppies. Have you researched the health problems of both Labradors and Dalmations and had your girl tested in line with the recommendations for both breeds? My understanding, although I haven't done much research, is that crossbreed puppies can be affected by the health problems of both breeds. Have you seen the up to date certificates for the parents of the puppy you are proposing to buy? I suspect as well that any charity would want to see relevant health certificates for both parents of any puppy before accepting them for training.

 

Hi Danny and welcome to the forum :

The potential problems I forsee relate to:
1. health test results. Any responsible breeder will have their breeding dogs tested for the full range of inherited disorders known to affect the breed. You'll need to have your Dalmador tested for everything that affects Labradors and Dalmations. That'll be expensive, but must be done. You'll also need to make sure that the Labrador you get comes farm health tested parents with good results. Then, when the Labrador is a year old, have him tested for all conditions affecting Labradors. If he's got good results, only then can you consider breeding. If the results are poor then a responsible breeder would not proceed with a litter. You'll just end up with a pet dog, not for breeding.
2. Your plan to offer pups to the Guide Dog association. Guide Dog Associstions have careful breeding plans and don't tend to buy pups from new sources. Definitely not from untested parents. And, very sorry to say it, probably not anything with Dalmation in it....

If you're prepared to accept the above then I see no problem with your plan There is nothing wrong with cross breeding, as long as both parents have great conformation, excellent health test results and good temperaments. As a puppy buyer I'd expect proof of the above (and of course also expect the puppies to have been raised in ideal conditions).

 

I agree with the above regarding health testing - this is becoming more and more important.

I also know a delightful Dalmador, Bella, who lives down the road from me and was the result of a tryst between a French farmer's Dalmatian bitch, and my sister's labrador (the brother of my beloved Bones). The puppies were absolutely lovely, and I found homes for several of them near where I live.

I do think there are strong arguments for cross-breeding - but I would be very careful in asking whether there are interested puppy buyers around. It would be terrible to breed these delightful pups, only to have them end up in a shelter somewhere.

 

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies.


I have contacted the breeder and she said that the father is health checked but the mother isn't. The puppies would be vet checked and KC registered.

Would people suggest I get a puppy from a different breeder?


As for my Dalmador, I know she has an allergic reaction to grass on her front 2 paws.. other than that, no health problems but would get her checked again at a later date (before any possible breeding).

In my area there is 1 Dalmador breeder. Their pups seem to be in high demand as for many Labrador cross breeds. I don't think it'd be really difficult to give the puppies a good home.

 

The father of the puppies is a PRA clear, hipscored and fully KC reg stud with an impressive 5 generation pedigree including 16 FTCH.

 

Yes, but YOU should heath test the puppy you buy when it's old enough and before breeding it. And, that sounds like minimal heath testing. What about elbows, heart, EIC, CNM? And what are the hip and elbow scores? Simply testing is not sufficient, you need to know the numbers.

 

Yes, I'd be health checking the puppy before breeding with my Dalmador. Prior to me paying for the puppy, it will have a full health check.

Okay, I will contact the breeder to gain the information on the numbers. Thanks for your reply.

 

The Mother should of been health checked too.

 

I thought so. Would you consider this a problem and maybe look at buying a puppy from a different breeder instead?

 

I would never buy a puppy if both parents had not been fully health checked and I had not been given the scores. A good breeder would always do this.

 

I agree. Never buy a puppy unless both parents have had the full range of tests relevant to that breed. Especially if you are contemplating breeding from that puppy.

A health check does not mean a vet visit prior to purchase. It means the full range of genetic tests, eye certifications and hip and elbow X-rays (X-rays are only really meaningful at or after a year old). You will not know if the puppy you buy is suitable to breed from till he is a year old.

There are plenty of people out there breeding from dogs without health tests and who are also finding a market for their puppies. At worst they don't care about health issues are just out to make some money (a proper breeder who does all the right things does not make any money out of a litter) and at best they are ignorant and haven't made it their job to educate themselves. I wouldn't touch these people with a barge pole, as far as buying a puppy goes.

You've asked for opinions before going ahead with it so well done for that.

 

Also bear in mind that your Dalmador has an allergic reaction to grass. That is an hereditary problem (atopic disease in dogs is defined as an hereditary predisposition to develop an allergic reaction to environmental allergens) and if you know she has this in my opinion you should not breed from her as you are likely to be selling pups who may go on to develop allergic skin disease themselves which may manifest as a lesser, similar or worse form than the mother has.

 

Good, I'm glad you plan to health check both your Dalmador and the new Lab before breeding. But I think you misunderstand a bit about the health checks. The one the breeder does on a puppy before sending it to a new home is NOT the same thing as the health tests done to be sure a dog is worthy of being bred. In fact several pre breeding checks can't be done till the dog is 18 months old or more.

REally, can I suggest you look into this more thoroughly? For one, I would NOT buy that Lab puppy if the mother has not also had all the hip, elbow, heart, eye, EIC and CNM checks. Some of those checks are gene tests and knowing the dog is clear can guarantee the pups will not be afflicted. As well I'd be looking for a breeder who does something with their dogs. Conformation shows, hunt tests, maybe agility or even rally. And I'd want that breeder to be a member of their local Lab group, working to ensure only the best dogs are bred. Ideally that would have done with the parents of your Dalmador as well. Highly agree on the allergic paws problem, if that is passed on to puppies it would not be good.

Plus, have you looked into the charities you plan to donate the resultant pups to? Do they accept donations of such puppies? Some service and guide dog agencies breed their own dogs or contract with a breeder. In Quebec, Canada, there is a well known service dog organization, MIRA, that does use mixed breeds but they are very involved in the breeding program. You might find the agencies you plan to donate the pups to will not accept them.

http://www.mira.ca/en/our-dogs/8/breeding_35.htm

ETA: I only know a bit about Labs. I'm not a breeder so I may be missing some health checks and the only thing I know about Dals is some are stone formers and I don't know if there is a health check for that.

ETA again: BAER testing for hearing. I know deafness is a problem in Dals. Google, you'll find lots on BAER.

 

Health concerns aside, I would never cross breed two dogs, unless I knew that there was an actual demand for the cross, and probably not even then. Cross breeds are much more likely to end up in shelters than purebred dogs. Even if the cross breed has some very good characteristics, it is much harder to find a market for them unless someone (or group) is trying to start a new breed such as Labradoodles. Even if you aren't concerned about selling them, what happens to the next generation.

While it is common to find mixed breed service dogs in the US, the Guide Dogs and Specialty Trained (drug, bomb, police etc) dogs are almost all purebred from specific lines developed for that purpose.

 

The vast majority of Guide dogs are first crosses.

 

I don't think that is true in the US. "Guide Dogs For The Blind" has their own Lab Line.

 

This is a common source of confusion. The hip and elbow tests are done later, when your puppy is over a year old. A puppy health check (usually carried out by the breeder's vet)is just to make sure that there is nothing obviously wrong with the puppy at the point of sale, does not include health 'tests' used for breeding stock. These have to be carried out by you at your expense.

Here is an article you may find helpful. http://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-breeding-should-you-let-your-dog-have-puppies/

As well as the labrador tests for your puppy ( Hips, eyes, PRA, CNM, EIC, ) you will also need to have your bitch tested for dalmatian disorders, so do read up on hearing problems (BAER test) and the horrible uric acid problem that most dalmatians suffer from. You can find this info on the KC website.

The main issue with any cross breed tends to be finding homes for the puppies. Most people will expect to pay a lot less for pups than they would for a purebred puppy, so you are highly unlikely to recover the costs of testing and raising the puppies.

EDITED because I have just seen Lochan's post, and I can only second her view that a bitch with a grass allergy should not be bred.