Kingsleey is 5 yrs old and per the ortho vet tore his ligament and needs either a tta or a tplo surgery. I am wondering if anyone has had experience with this could shed some light on it all. Thanks so much.
Several of our members have experienced knee surgery. Hopefully they will pop up with some advice for you. Sorry Kingsleey is having this issue. Julie started a thread about how to keep your dog occupied if on restricted exercise https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/things-to-do-for-dogs-on-restricted-exercise.10654/ You might find bits of Julie and Charlie's story helpful. I am sure ther is more but try these ones... https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/lovely-chocolate-charlie.4555/ https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/cruciate-ligament.3598/
Sorry to hear about your doggie's injury. There is nothing that JulieT does not know about torn knee ligaments.... Definitely read all the stuff she has written on the subject. What sort of advice or plan have you had from your vet so far?
My Brogan was about the same age when he tore his cruciate and had to have his first TPLO. We'd just about made it through the first six months post-op of restricted activity and he came up lame on the second knee and he had to have the second TPLO. All together he was out of commission for a year. It was not an easy time. My Jodhi also had one TPLO at about 10 years old and had an easier time of it, possibly because she was a smaller dog (50 lbs compared to Brogan's 80 lbs). I'm not going to kid you, the surgeries themselves were rough, and the recovery times were excruciating. The surgeries were painful and the first days both dogs had to be drugged out of their minds. My surgeon was very conservative with recovery: first month absolutely no movement except to eliminate and even then I had to support his weight while he was up. Then a second month working up to 15 minutes per day of walking. Third month with 30 minutes walking and so on. You can see why it broke my heart to have Brogan go lame on the second knee at the six month point just as he was about to be cleared for full activity after the first TPLO. My advice from my limited experience is to get at least a second opinion and to make sure the surgeon you choose has the necessary experience. There are vets, ortho vets and ortho surgeons. Different people will give you different solutions to the same problem. My vet pretty much did only these types of surgeries and had an especially thriving business in police and military dogs. He told you when he thought he could fix something, sat and explained everything with the x rays and models, and also told me frankly what the risks were. I really appreciated that. I saw a couple other vets first who just told me to hustle my dog into surgery or advised me to take the cheaper option because "it would probably work". Otherwise, the hardest bits are the first days and dealing with the activity restrictions. Brogan didn't deal with anaesthesia well, so I learned he needed to be kept over longer after surgery or I couldn't handle him myself getting him out of the car at home and safely in the house. Have someone to help you if possible and be careful of them biting you or doing other weird things (thrashing around, hurting themselves trying to get out of their crate or away from a tether) because of the combo of pain and the medication. Rig up a sling (can be just an old beach towel) to help support them for elimination times, decide a nice place to tether them in the house where they can be in the centre of the action while still not moving, fill up lots of Kongs and other food games they can do without moving. Having said ALL that, for us the TPLOs were nothing short of a miracle. Brogan lived to be nearly 13 and never developed arthritis in either joint. He went on to hike, run, play and just generally live his life as a normal dog for over half his life with metal knees. It changed his gait a little, but otherwise the only side-effect was that he'd set off the metal detector at the airport every time we went through. Which was kind of funny, actually. Jodhi passed at 16 and also never had another problem with her TPLO knee. For me, the surgeries were worth every penny of the cost and every minute of the pain-in-the-posterior recovery time. Wishing you and Kingsley the very best outcome!
Thank you so much for the replies. The vet I saw was one that the local Human Society recommends and had a lot of great reviews. They are strictly and surgeon center. She explained to me with models and xrays the two different procedures and said they try to do the least conservative one first but if not then they have to do the other but they won't know until they are actually in there doing it. Kingsleey is a big boy at 100lbs and has been on weight loss food etc but he tends to stay at that weight not matter what so I appreciate the information about slings etc. The vet did say he would have a 50% chance of tearing the other one since he did this one. I am also wondering about pricing. The vet I saw is all inclusive of 3500, which I am still working on coming up with, but I just wondered if that was average price as I couldn't find info on this. Also I was interested in recovery and things of that nature which Emily greatly helped with and I will go back and read the other post. Kingsleey has been sick little rescue, but such a happy sweet boy so I want to do what is best for him, thus all this information is great. Again thanks so much.
That should say they will try do the most conservative, but won't know until they do the surgery and see how it is.
If it helps, Brogan's two TPLOs were in 2009 and cost USD$5000 each in SF Bay California. My surgeon said precisely the same thing about the second one tearing, and indeed it did, for both my dogs. Brogan's tore in the same year, Jodhi's second knee tore five years later. In 2009 I was given two options (there may be more now) : (1) what the surgeon described as "wrapping fish line around the joint" to create a sort of fake ligament, and (2) the TPLO. My normal vet recommended option #1. My surgeon said with a dog as big as Brogan, he did not recommend option #1. As I'd already gone through a TPLO for Jodhi (50 lb dog) and was very happy with the result, I went with the TPLO. I got a second (third?) opinion just to make myself feel better, but I really didn't seriously consider option #1. By the way, if you do want a second opinion, the surgeon you saw should allow you to take Kingsley's x rays with you to show the other vet, either in a big envelope or just on a thumb drive. This will save you money and Kingsley unnecessary x rays.
wondering if @JulieT has spotted your thread - as Rachael says, if Julie doesn't know it, its not worth knowing. Emily has given good advice too though
Oddly there doesn't seem to be to many who perform these surgeries in my area. (tampa florida area) I've called many places, but I think my initial choice was best as most refer me back to that office or to Blue Pearl which is an animal hospital and frankly their prices are just ludicrous in my opinion. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and I am sure I will have more questions as I go along. Right now just getting funding and wanting to be as prepared as possible. I do have another question I saw that the dog is to be kept confined and the vet told me that as well, but I was wondering just how confined if that makes sense. Kinglseey is a bit of lazy boy in the house, but he does like to roam from one of his beds to another often. On the other hand he really does love his crate (he was crate trained), but as you probably can guess I never close the door as he is 5 and its just not necessary. So would he be confined as in locked in it? And I think my final thought for today at least lol is was there any special equipment that seemed necessary or a lifesaver that I should look into? Again I really appreciate all the advice
For my surgeon, confined meant confined. I squidged a bit with Brogan because his downstay was impeccable, but it still meant that he was in bed and tethered to the nearby sofa. Here's a pic of him and you can seen the purple leash trailing off behind him going from his harness to the sofa leg. He was literally allowed to be on his feet no more than 10 minutes per day, and that was simply to walk him from the living room to my garden for a wee or a poo, then back in again to be tethered again. No wandering around the house. My first TPLO was Jodhi and I used a crate. This worked a charm until the third day when I left her for the first time for 30 minutes to go to the grocery store. I came home to a bloodbath as she'd attempted to get out of a metal crate with her TEETH. Most of which were no longer in her head. She was such a well-behaved dog in normal circumstances, but I vastly underestimated the effects of high levels of opiates on a dog. This was a very freak outcome, but just to let you know just how strong the pain meds are for the first few days and not to expect "normal" behaviour from your dog. My "special equipment" was pretty basic: plastic bags to tie around his leg and an old sock to hold it on when going out into wet grass for a wee, a thermometer (my vet made me take his temp every two hours for the first week - ugh), and an old towel to support his back end. I also got a ramp for the car but Brogan refused to use it and I had to lift him up and down instead. Ooof!
awe that picture and those eyes just melt. Hmm well that leaves me much to consider as he loves his crate its his safe place but he also loves his couch and bed, but I know the couch is totally going to be off limits. As far as the equipment goes did that say you held his leg while he went out as in he only had use of the 3? Again thanks for all the info
He didn't want to stand on it anyway, so he just held it up and didn't put weight on it. I didn't need to actually hold it up for him. The towel under his belly gave him good support. If he wasn't on all the drugs, he could have managed with 3 legs just fine, but being a bit loopy from the meds, the towel was a good safety net. I'm probably scaring you more than I should - the difficult "intensive care" stage really only lasts the first week or so. Then the hard part is just keeping them quiet and still and not going nutty balls with boredom. But again - totally worth it!
Ah I see ok thank you. I am sure once I get the funds and he has the surgery or if I think of more questions I will write again. Much appreciate you taking the time to answer me
Charlie had a TTA rapid on one leg, and a TTA on the other. The incisions were quite small, stitched with dissolvable stitches and covered with a simple strip of tape. He was not bandaged like Brogan at all, and he certainly was not restricted to standing for only 10 minutes a day. The opposite, in fact, we were encouraged to keep his leg moving and he was free to move around a small carpeted room. He needed PROMs for the first few days when he was drugged such that he wasn't getting up but after that, slow, controlled movement was encouraged. Restrictions meant: no jumping, no sudden movements, no running, no steps, no getting up on the sofa, absolutely no slippery surfaces, etc. but it didn't mean no movement. I cleared out rooms and put barriers in place so the rooms were 'safe' and my dog was free to make himself comfy on beds etc. BUT unless he was in a near empty carpeted room, he was on a lead or in a crate without exception. So he didn't walk from the front room to the kitchen, for example, without being on a lead. He was fully weight bearing on his legs the day after his ops, and he started slow, controlled lead walking for 5 minutes 4 or 5 times a day from 3 days after his op. and those built up by a minute a week. Slow and controlled is the key - he had to walk slowly and place every leg correctly. And we walked him with stop watches round our necks. He didn't need harnesses or any assistance getting up or down. But he was (and still is) a very fit, very slim dog - before both ops we reduced his weight to the absolute minimum it could be without his health suffering, and that was 27.5kg. My vet says he wouldn't be considered over weight at 32kg. So he is 4.5kg below his maximum acceptable weight. He is still at that weight now. If your dog is carrying even 1lb of excess weight, get it off him. $3500 is cheap, I think. I paid much, much more. I know it's expensive, it really is and that can be tough but go to the best surgeon you can find. An experienced surgeon and doing the rehabilitation by the book leads to the best outcome. Charlie is completely recovered, he has no problems at all that impact on his life - so far, so good. I know of other dogs where their owners have not been careful with the rehabilitation and the outcome has been very poor. This is a bit strange. There isn't much to choose between a TTA and a TPLO - apart from for Rottweilers, I understand, where the angle of the knee is such that a TPLO is preferred. I suspect they mean that they will decide when they do the x-rays for the template. After consulting a few surgeons in the UK, I was strongly in favour of a TTA for Charlie, but by the time it came to his second op, one of those surgeons had changed his mind and had a small preference for TPLO. I stuck with TTA because I'd got such good results the first time round. Best of luck with it.
The doc explained to me that the TPLO involved rotating the knee around while the TTA involved putting it like in a hinge position if I am explaining it right and that she would decide what was best once she was actually in the surgery based on scar tissue etc. That was my understanding as it goes. I didn't get full postoperative instructions as I haven't scheduled surgery yet. Thus, I am just trying to be prepared for what I will need to do etc. Now you have given me more to think about since my entire house is tile except where his food bowls are which has a gym type mat there. Again I appreciate all the advice.
Yes, that's sort of right. TPLO is Tibial Plateau Leveling Osteotomy and TTA is Tibial Tuberosity Advancement. A section of the tibia is rotated in the TPLO, whereas a section is advanced forward in the TTA. I was never told that the choice depended on scar tissue though, and indeed have never heard that there is a robust way to choose between them - but obviously your surgeon will know best. I’m sure you can ask more questions of the surgeon if you want to do so and I understand that dogs can do as well using either technique. Best of luck with it.
Wow, this sounds great and much better for the dog than the TPLO. This makes sense - a Rottie gait is much different from a Labrador (or any other breed I know for that matter). With Brogan it also may have been because it was years ago and the TTA wasn't as proven yet. No idea. I was indeed very pleased with the outcome of the TPLO, but very good to know of other options out there for the future. Of course hoping to never need it.
I'm not so sure it's about a TTA vs TPLO although the TTA rapid is a much shorter operation. But yes, this is Charlie the day after his first TTA operation - so he is no more than about 15 hours after surgery here - still at the vet's before we drove away. As you can see, he is fully weight bearing on his leg and is moving it freely (in the circumstances), although didn't want to stand on his right leg to pee it was only another couple of days before he would do this given the chance. And he is also more than capable of jumping up, over, or on, something if he got the chance (which he didn't). I am not sure this would be the case for a much heavier dog though. MVI_0030 by Julie T, on Flickr
