We see many posts about dogs not responding to recall on walks or dogs jumping up people or other dogs. Excuses given for such behaviour is age - he's only a puppy or friendliness - he just wants to say hello/play. As a trainer I'm in contact with many professionals and the following is copied from a fellow trainer's post/rant on FB "Please, please, please remember that it is your job to keep your dog safe when out. Twice today during sessions working with clients and their reactive dogs I had off lead dogs approach us which were not under verbal control. Please remember that you are running a risk if you let your dog off lead in public areas without full verbal control in all reasonable circumstances. It's not ok to allow your dog to jump on on-lead dogs any more than it is to allow them to jump on people. Incident number one, the other dog followed us closely as our dog was on lead, we were off the path and were moving away. The owner's excuse was "it's because you have treats in your pocket". No, it's because the owner has let strangers give her dog treats and has not properly trained her dog to come away when called. Incident two, a young dog, maybe 6 months, raced up to us, we were working with 2 on lead dogs, well away from everyone else. The excuse here is "He's only a puppy, he's only young". If your dog is only young and doesn't have off lead manners around other dogs, then he needs to be on a long line until he has appropriate behaviour. In this incident, the client was handling the dogs and I ran interference by shoeing the dog away. I did so without touching the dog. Public parks are shared spaces and as everyone has the right to be there as long as they are acting responsibly. Your dog is your responsibility. Don't let him or her approach on lead dogs, especially if they are moving away from you."
I don't think anyone on here thinks it's OK and yes we must take responsibility for our dogs and their behaviour. There are however reasons for it and a bit of empathy goes a long way especially when the owner concerned is trying to improve things I've certainly been caught out over the years.....
You sound pretty frustrated Jo. It's the old thing about not apologising and taking responsibility for your short-comings/lack of training.
Of course we need to train our dogs and of course we should intervene quickly if they misbehave and apologise. But I also think that as dog owners we need to cut each other a bit of slack. My dog no longer jumps up at people or approaches other dogs if called away -but she certainly did as a puppy and I'm very grateful for all the kind, understanding people I met along the way.
I do understand your frustration as my girl doesn't like strange dogs running up and getting in her face, but I also understand that not all dogs can be proofed from all situations, especially puppies. I agree with what the others have said about being kind and understanding, but there are limits.
I agree with all of the above. It's hard going training a puppy or dog to behave all of the time and we all try very hard to keep "control" but dogs are not robots so understanding and kindness goes a long way. I feel this can all get out of control with expecting perfection, life just isn't like that and shouldn't be. It's a bit like bringing up children, any parent telling you their child is an angel most certainly is NOT x
I guess I just think it's hard enough trying to train your dog, without worrying that you're going to get shouted at for your dog doing something that's in the scheme of things is not all that bad. Stanley running up to someone or a dog to say hello isn't ideal, and if I can get him on his lead before he does it - then I will. But sometimes he's too quick for it. He's not aggressive and he doesn't jump up - he literally just wants to say hello. He's never hurt anyone - so I just apologise and usually find whoever he has ran up to is delighted to see him. I wouldn't make someone feel bad for a friendly, daft dog coming running up to us. An aggressive dog then that's different. If he hurt someone however (like in Kate's story the other day) I would be mortified and do everything to help the person but I do think that's a rare occurance.
I was one of those "he's a puppy" people. I really didn't see what the problem was. I mean, here was a delightful, friendly Labrador puppy who wanted to be your friend. There was a lady who brought her elderly, sick dog to the park every day. She'd yell at me that Snowie was bumping her dog. My thoughts were she should protect her dog by keeping him at home. Obviously all this changed when my dog was diagnosed with a slipped disc and I hated that other people let their dogs body-bash my dog. It had actually changed before the slipped disc, probably from reading the posts on this forum! I guess people who've had several dogs are more aware. Me, as a newbie Lab owner, was very unaware. Yesterday I was at a popular walking spot waiting for a friend to arrive. A woman arrived with her lovely choc Lab girl, also hanging around waiting. Snowie and her happily greeted each other and had a good sniff, and then Snowie proceeded to mount her. Before I could lift him off (it all happened so quickly), the old girl yelped in pain. Bad hips. Oh my word I felt awful. Apologized profusely. And then again. And then again some more. After reading all the posts here, I was primed! I think it was well received - at least hopefully she didn't feel angry. Later on the walk - in a forest where people bring their dogs to walk off lead - a man appeared with his dog on lead. Snowie had run ahead and he started to yell very gruffly at Snowie, Get.A.Way! Get.A.Way! Like I yell at a dog who's showing aggression to Snowie. And the two women with him grabbed Snowie's collar and said, Now don't fight. I must say, I was shocked cos Snowie was relaxed and happy. But nevertheless I said nothing, just leashed up Snowie and walked on. Who knows, his dog might've been attacked recently, and me defensively saying, He's really very friendly, would've only irritated him for sure. I've learned a lot reading all your posts! It's made it easier for me to deal with all the different types of people I come across with dogs, and be more sympathetic to those who just want to protect their dogs, and forgiving to those whose friendly pups muddy my jeans!
I need to just add, though, that where I usually walk it's the norm that dogs race up to each other to meet n greet. Most people where I walk consider this type of dog socializing to be completely normal. Not all dogs are equally filled with socializing gusto, and some aren't friendly. But it is generally rare for anyone to avoid this type of interaction.
@MF You were understanding that the man grabbed Snowie's collar, I would be furious if anyone did that to either of my dogs. How can anyone know if your dog is collar shy or wouldn't like to be grabbed by a stranger? That's not on in my opinion. x
It was the two women. They didn't grab it aggressively, were quite gentle I think. Anyway Snowie was stopped in his tracks from this man shouting at him so he wasn't moving. I guess I was shocked, too, and wasn't thinking. Yes, agree with you now that I come to think of it. In fact I am often amazed when people pet Snowie without asking me. What happens if he were to respond aggressively? How are they to know he's so friendly? I was actually annoyed the other night - we were at a food market (that allows dogs inside!) and a woman, excited to see a dog, came behind Snowie and vigorously patted him with both hands on his sides. I thought it was rude. And I'm sure many dogs would not have tolerated being taken by surprise by a stranger like this. She was lucky it was Snowie. I quickly moved on and removed him from the situation.
It depends on the circumstances. How many times have I read on this forum that proofing involves increasing distraction, duration and distance? At some point the proofing of your recall/stop whistle/heeling/stay etc. is going to fail and, despite your best effort, your dog will break and say hello to another. I think it's your response that's important. Firstly the response 'in the moment' including how quickly you regain control, how much you apologise etc. Secondly it's your training response. If the owner that has just had their dog break a stay to run over to others continues to put them in the same situation (same type of distraction/distance from others/length of stay) and the dog continues to break, the other dog owners near by have more reason to be annoyed.
Totally agree with the trainer that Jojo is quoting here. It is our responsibility. Yes, sometimes we all slip up and hopefully others are forgiving when we do....but if we do slip up we should own the slip up, act fast to fix it and apologise.
Been on both ends of this ! Sam is pretty good now that he is ( sort of ) sensible but as a youngster, he let the side down on more than one occasion , or rather , I didn't call him away in time . An apology goes a heck of a long way though x
I've had it both ways too. I always been understanding kind and have actually made friends through being like that. The only time I do get angry is when the dogs are harassing mine or becoming aggressive and the excuses get trotted out. I find it best to just avoid others a lot of the time.
Yes we should work hard to make sure failure is rare @charlie I'm not sure you can have it both ways. If you'd like a little understanding for your dog heading over to people when they'd rather it didn't because it's recall has failed you may have to exercise a little understanding if they take its collar and keep it away from a person or dog who needs the space
I posted recently about Coco bouncing off in the wood (where we rarely see anyone), failed recall. I was reunited with him when a lady had caught him by his collar (or harness) and was leading him back. She was both helping me by catching my dog, and protecting her own, one of whom was a bit reactive I think due to sight issues (they'd been walked on by her walking partner). I was extremely grateful and said so. She was understandably a bit miffed, but she was very understanding of my situation. I continue to work on recall every single day.
Off lead dogs running up into Charlie's face is the biggest problem we face where I live and he does need space from some dogs. He has a lead cuff stating this. I'm not sure how I would even manage to take another dogs collar, return it to it's owner and try to keep Charlie calm having been put in that situation. It has never crossed my mind to manhandle anyone's dog as I wouldn't like it so I wouldn't do it, I think it's rude. I also wouldn't want to risk it as I don't know what kind of temperament the dog might have so wouldn't want to risk injury to myself or Charlie. I just ask the person as calmly as I can to please put their dog on lead, some do, some don't, I just do what I can in that situation. x
I saw that post on FB, too, and, as much as I agree with the sentiment, I did find the tone a little judgemental - I think he was probably having a bad day! Of course it's our responsibility to keep our dogs safe, and of course we should always endeavour to keep our dogs under verbal control. But they're not robots, things happen, and we all have to learn from those incidents. Try to minimise them. The frustration comes from people who don't see there's a problem with letting their off-lead dogs run up to others. If they've never had a problem, though, can we blame them for not considering that it might not be the best idea? For not considering that the other dog might be aggressive, scared or injured? We're constantly learning throughout this life, so we maybe shouldn't be too quick to jump down their throats. I believe the majority of the members on this forum do understand that it's something we should try to prevent, and work on achieving this. That in itself should be applauded. Everyone messes up on occasion, but if you're trying towards the end result, and manage more than you don't, then that's just brilliant.
One if the worst experiences I've had was when I got pounced on by fully grown gr it reduced me to a screaming mess on the floor. I was in a lot if pain that day and finding it hard to just function,it jumping on me reduced me to rubble. The owner was so upset don't think it had ever occurred to her that her dog could hurt someone. I explained what had happened and she was so apologetic . She always keeps her dog on a lead near me now as she knows how friendly her dog is. She is also more careful with her around everyone. no harsh words were exchanged and we are friendly now she's just learnt to be more careful.
