Been noticing some resource guarding from Simba over the last little while. He's chewing a bone, I lean down to pat his head, growl. Done it a few times with Mark and Sarah too. Of all the behaviours that we deal with, this one is the hardest for me psychologically. I have a hard time trusting a dog that growls at me, even though I understand the reasons why. It's also hard for my hubby, he gets worried about aggressiveness and other visitors, etc. Which I do, too. I am going back to the desensitization of hands close to him by using treats, etc, but even if it works for me, Mark and Sarah, what about visitors? Simba basically has a lovely personality, despite all his food stealing and fence jumping and jumping up and... : But this growling thing gets to me. Just had to vent a little.
Re: A bit discouraged Now you know what I'm going to say don't you .... ' sorry , but I haven't got any experience to help you with this blah blah blah ;D' I can understand your feelings about the growling , I would be a bit scared for sure. You've done a lot of work on this already and made great progress so I think it's just reinforcing it to desentisise him further.in relation to other visitors ... Maybe it's similar to the proofing process ??? Ie at some point will an experienced dog handling / owning friend be required to help you out to monitor simbas progress ? Possibly not your brother ....but an outsider that understands the situation and could help without taking you backwards ? I'm sure you will have read Pippas articles , there will be a member along to give you something more practical than me. You are right , Simba IS a lovely dog and we all love his antics , he's a right character !!!! X
Re: A bit discouraged To be honest, if he is just doing it with bones or food then what I'd do is leave him alone with his bone/food. Don't keep trying to approach him at these times as it will only confirm in his head that he has something to worry about and that he needs to defend it. If you do need to approach for some reason, don't look at him but toss him some treats instead. Just give him space when he has food.
Re: A bit discouraged Hi Lisa, I would never do this except in an emergency (if I thought the dog was choking for example) My personal view is that it is a mistake to touch a dog with a bone. It is true that some dogs have such tolerant temperaments that a baby could take a bone away from them. But this is not 'average' or even 'normal'. Real food (raw meat and bones) is of enormously high value for a dog. And many dogs will guard it. With all other forms of resource guarding, the dog can be rewarded for giving up the resource (or coming away from it) with high value food. But with guarding bones, you have nowhere to go. In families where there are small children, I advise people to simply forget about bones altogether. The risk of forever labelling a perfectly nice dog as 'aggressive' is just too high. In conclusion. Dogs don't need recreational bones. If your dog guard bones, don't give them to him! *Don't feed him anything he cannot clear up within twenty minutes, and don't allow anyone near him whilst he is eating. He is just being a dog. Edited to add for general reference, * this applies to high value food such as raw meat and bones. Dogs can be taught to be comfortable with anyone touching them or handling them or their bowls if fed on kibble, see: growling over food
Re: A bit discouraged Just further to Pippa's comments - anything that he can't 100% clear up in 20 mins time is likely to be a risk to his teeth.
Re: A bit discouraged Hi, I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that food guarding can be avoided by sitting with your dog and hand-feeding them from their bowl - the theory being that this demonstrates to them that you are not attempting to take the food away from them. Although we don't very often still do this with Harvey we did do it for quite a while after we first got him. He doesn't show any signs of resource guarding at all (but this could just be in his nature rather than because of the hand-feeding) PS Just read Pippa's post. She has far more experience that I do (Harv is our first dog and only 7 months old) so go with her approach
Re: A bit discouraged You are quite right, with the exception of raw meat and bones. I have amended my post to reflect that
Re: A bit discouraged Sorry to hear this is a worry for you, Lisa. You've been given some great advice, which I can't add to. Only to say that I read that growling is a good thing, in terms of it is normal behaviour, and a (as I think Rachael said) "polite warning" in doggy terms. I book I read basically was saying it's not always good if a dog never growls, as one day it might bite without warning. Hugs to you and tummy rubs to the lovely Simba.
Re: A bit discouraged [quote author=Lisa link=topic=5434.msg68487#msg68487 date=1397609680] Been noticing some resource guarding from Simba over the last little while. He's chewing a bone, I lean down to pat his head, growl.[/quote] I tried to take a few chips from my girlfriends plate one night and she stuck a fork in my hand, she said it was just a natural reaction and not to do it again. I never did. She does let me feed her maltesers with a straw
Re: A bit discouraged [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5434.msg68525#msg68525 date=1397636812] I tried to take a few chips from my girlfriends plate one night and she stuck a fork in my hand[/quote] You were lucky.
Re: A bit discouraged Stolen chips always taste better though so sometimes it's a risk worth taking Big hugs for you Lisa, sounds like Simba is being pretty normal so try not to worry x
Re: A bit discouraged Hello Lisa, please try not to worry about Simba growling about his bones. As others have said, just leave him alone with them. I probably have one of the easiest dogs to handle on this forum, but I am very wary about Poppy with her bones and would never try to take one away from her without a high-grade treat to swap for it.
Re: A bit discouraged Just a few observations about Lady's behaviour. She doesn't resource guard anything in her bowl I think because she knows from experience that we only put food into it and never take it away from her. She will resource guard other things though that have already been mentioned like bones, pigs ears and stuff like that. It's never been a problem except on the odd occasion she has decided she wants to bring a pig's ear or a hide bone on a walk. ;D Usually she drops it after a couple of hundred yards and I put it in my pocket and give it back to her later. The only other times she's growled at me is when there turns out to have been a reason. For example sore elbows and not wanting to get out of the car because of this. She has allowed me to pick her up and lift her out of the car after a lot of reassurance noises in these circumstances. She's occasionally growled at bed time but that's just please go away I'm too comfortable to move. ;D
Re: A bit discouraged Try not to get stressed over this Lisa . My old Lab Tess was as soft as a brush , lovely natured but she too would growl if another dog or human went too close if she had a bone , never her meal, just marrow bones . I just stopped giving them to her, sorted .
Re: A bit discouraged Meant to put at the end of my post but got distracted - So I don't think you have much to worry about.
Re: A bit discouraged Just an idea but do you have anywhere you can put her so she can enjoy her bone in peace? My lab is fed on raw meat and has bones once or twice a week depending on how often I can get them. When he has them he's put in the utility room and I leave the door open so I can keep my eye on him (never leave a dog with a recreational bone unattended!) He's never growled at me while having his bone - but then I've always respected his place and left him alone while he has it. Although I do offer a few words such as good boy or whatever in a jolly tone that makes him wag his tail. He knows I'm around, but I know to leave him be.
Re: A bit discouraged Hmmm...thanks for the replies and encouragement! Simba never growls over his kibble, I can stick a hand in his bowl while he's eating and it's no problem. The growling is over bones or occasionally, a purloined item or a toy. That would also include rawhide bones, on occasion, not just "real" bones. Okay, no more bones. Shoulda thought of that one! : I guess then, that Kongs will have to be the only chew item? I'm especially thinking of those times when we have people over and I need to help him to settle down and quit being a pest -I would give him a treat to chew on (a bone, rawhide bone, or Kong). Would there be a danger of this behaviour transferring to the Kong, then, do you think? Will continue with the resource guarding desensitization over toys, etc. Mainly we have got over this, but it still shows up on occasion.
Re: A bit discouraged If you stuff the kong with frozen, soaked kibble no reason why he should be any different with it than his normal kibble? I guess if it's stuffed with raw steak, it might be the same as bone...I guess it's the value of the food, rather than whether it's in a kong or not?
Re: A bit discouraged Hi Lisa I've just got a new book in the hope it will help with my twos nervous aggression. It's call Click to Calm healing the aggressive dog by Emma parsons. It's a Karen Pryor clicker book. I think the title would be a bit off putting for some and it should be healing the reactive dog as it would be very useful for excitable dogs that lunge at others etc. It has some very useful clicker training exercises including changing your stress cues into calm ones for the dog. eg if you involuntarily tighten the lead when you know your dog will react it shows you how to train the dog to look at you when you do this. There is a section on aggression with people which isn't really the sort I need but it covers food guarding and object guarding. I can't remember if you use a clicker with Simba but if you do have a look at it on amazon I dont know but it might help.
Re: A bit discouraged Thanks, Jen. I do use the clicker and have found some great ideas online for how to click and treat to desensitize a dog regarding resource guarding. We have made great progress with this, but obviously still need to keep working on it. Appreciate the suggestion, I'll see if I can find the book!
