Yup, negative punishment really goes hand-in-hand with positive reinforcement in order to prevent dogs self-rewarding. So, for example, stopping when your dog pulls on the lead so he can't be rewarded for pulling by moving in the direction he wants to go. The key is to make it proportional and understandable. The R+ part helps with the understanding; I found this with my puppy - she's bright and a quick learner but simply didn't associate the stopping with having to create a loose lead, so I used a lot more R+ with her and far less P-. Of course I still have to stop if she pulls, but if she's pulling because she's too excited by something to think, there's absolutely zero point and there's no learning happening by standing there waiting for a loose lead. Moreso, it becomes intensely punishing to her. That's not something I'm prepared to do, so that's when she gets some roast chicken waved under her nose to bring her back to me, followed by lots of praise and treats for small increments of the focus and behaviour I'd rather have. Similarly, withdrawing your attention from your dog for a couple of minutes to calm down is perfectly reasonable P-. Withdrawing your attention for an extended period is intensely punishing and so not reasonable. Additionally, it's the immediate withdrawal of attention that is the key for learning action and consequence; anything more than that and the dog is no longer learning anything.
Yes, thank you, of course. He's outside a few minutes at a time and only when I actually catch him in the act. There's no point putting him outside for trotting around with something he's stolen (he won't associate it with the act at that point) - so I remove it from him silently - with neither praise nor a harsh tone.
Ooh I LOVE the zoomies! I'm so happy Snowie still does them at age 5.5 yo. And he is dead tired afterwards! Great way for him to exhaust himself, ready for a nice sleep afterwards. When he gets into zoomie action, I also find a safe space and I cheer him on. The only thing I'm worried about is a snapped tendon cos he flies off the patio three steps down onto the grass. Thankfully no injuries yet! We close the house doors cos if he goes inside he likes to slide on the rug or he slides on the wooden floor, and then I'm worried he'll crash and hurt himself. The zoomies don't last that long. Probably 3-4 laps around the swimming pool and then he's done. I'd love them to go longer - they are great entertainment!
We had some friends over the other night and Harley was so happy and excited that we all got treated a few laps of the zoomies...around them and their car when they arrived. I am also a for the zoomies.
Another fan for the zoomies - Coco will zoom around the garden, often after a walk - he runs behind the christmas tree, out around the grass, around the bay tree then will do a couple of spins chasing his tail, then start the circuit again - we might get 3 or 4 circuits. He doesn't involve any humans in his zooming. Long may it continue.
I love the zoomies too - Bailey does this generally with something in his mouth....round and round the house or club house like a nut. I also encourage them as he will then flop and have a rest. As with others this tends to be after a walk. Love the expression on his face while he's doing it too!
Love the Zoomies! When our 4 month old lab Byron does this its as if his back legs are going faster than the front, so it looks like he is sitting upright whilst running
Snowie's legs look like they're sticking out sideways, almost like helicopter blades. Amazing he actually goes forwards!
Coco sometimes gets the zoomies before a walk, while I'm sitting in the hall putting my boots on. He runs in and out of the front room, into our bedroom, over the (airing) bed and back. I laugh so much. I just love seeing dogs exhibiting uninhibited joy. I think back to when he was "new" and he would jump at me and bite my clothes - probably the same expression of joy but not nearly as nice for me!
It was not my intention to promote painful punishments and I am sorry if I did something wrong. Also, I can assure you I am not harming my dog in any way and she most definetely is not being trained with fear. The prong collar was actually recommended by my trainer and he explained it to be humane due to the fact that the edges are not pointed but rounded and do not pinch. He also told me that when dogs pull on their collars excessively that it can damage their throat so I thought I was doing the right thing. If he has sent me in the wrong direction then I would appreciate a suggestion on how to walk my lab puppy safely. She is 87 pounds and can overpower me at any moment she sees something she wants to run after and has done it. My fear is that she will run into the street and I will not be able to get her back.
I have 2 labs at the moment one is 32kg the other is 26 kg. I walk them together one on a flat collar and one in a harness as he is young and training to walk nicely. I did have 3 he was 34kg and walked after training on a flat collar. I have walked them all together due the training i have put in to get othem to do this. I have very limited use if my left arm a balance problem and am at the moment having chemo, so its not easy but because I have trained them to walk well they do. If you look on the site there is loads of info on how to do this. If you look at a diagram of the nerves and muscles in a dogs neck you can see that there are some very delicate structures in that area. Yes constant pulling is bad but you can train to stop this and a prone collar even a blunted one will do more damage. There us nothing humane about them I would also get a better trainer the ones I work with do not us this type of pain/fear inducing equipment . although you clearly don't want to see the fear and pain Your dog is suffering it is happening. You can't apply a painful stimulus to a delicate area without inducing pain that's just basic biology.
I think you just have to look at a prong collar, even one with rounded points, to realise it's not humane or gentle. I appreciate that it's easy to be led by someone with more experience than you, and there is lots of advice out there that advocates these devices. It can be a minefield for someone trying to do the best for their dog, with so many different points of view. Dogs have delicate throats and, you're right, it is not good for them to be straining against their collars, as this can do damage. But, consider how the prong collar works. The dog pulls against it and gets jabbed with the prongs. That's how it's designed. Even if they are rounded so they don't pierce the skin, they will still hurt. Imagine it on your own throat. It's no different. So, your dog learns that it hurts to pull against it and stops pulling. Because she is afraid of the pain. The threat of that pain is what stops her pulling. As your dog pulls, you need to protect that throat, so a flat collar is not an option at this stage. A harness will spread the load across her chest and keep her throat safe. Some people will tell you that harnesses encourage pulling. This is simply not true. They may make it less painful to pull, sure, but that's where your job comes in; training the dog to walk on a loose lead. Until you've done that, you can use a harness that is designed to stop the dog pulling by turning it towards you when she tries. These are still not a training solution, but will allow you to continue to walk your dog safely until you have trained her. There are also head collars that some people use. I would try a harness first, personally. As for training, there are several methods you can try, but the first thing is to get an understanding of how unnatural this thing is that you're asking her to do. You try walking at somebody else's pace for any length of time; it's frustrating and hard on your joints. Dogs do not naturally walk at the same pace as their humans and to punish them for that fact instead of rewarding them when they do manage it is bonkers. So, change your mindset and revel in her amazing success when she stays by your side even for a step or two Start with just a couple of paces. Lure if you have to. Praise your dog, reward her highly and release her to sniff or play. Repeat, and build up the distance. Doing this off lead first is a better way. You can make it into a game by changing pace and direction frequently, running backwards a few pace, spinning in a circle; keeping the dog on her toes will make the learning process more fun for both of you. Lots of high value rewards given frequently. Don't plan on getting from A to B in these sessions, just enjoy the learning process. In time, you'll be able to start expecting more on walks. Unclip the lead from the harness and attach it to the collar. Walk a few paces and reward. Training this way, you will end up with a dog who is more focussed on you, more in tune with you and looking to you, rather than her environment, for fun and games. It's so much more rewarding than punishing a dog for getting something wrong, when, to the dog, it isn't "wrong" in the first place.
When my boy was younger, I had to hang onto a tree to anchor myself if he started pulling! Then I discovered the front-fastening harness. Made a massive difference!! I had so much more control. I hate the head collar cos my boy hated it. And it didn't stop pulling - he'd jerk on it, which I think was also damaging to his neck. I don't like any device that controls the head and interferes with the neck. He's 5.5 years old now and very easy to walk on a loose lead. I now use a back-fastening harness cos it fits better - the front-fastening harness got in the way of his front legs. But I still use it from time to time when I know I need to get it on quickly - like if there's a bitch on heat, it's so quick n easy to put on.
Time is a strange thing when you have a lab pup. The challenges seem to go on forever when they are happening and then one day you think to yourself, "wow, I used to have a dog that did xyz and they don't do that much anymore". Like potty training, taking a young pup out for potty seems almost too awful to cope with when you have only biting as a reward. And why I say time is a warped is that Harley is only 7 months old now and she mostly walks well on a loose leash (we honestly NEVER thought it would happen), she doesn't become totally frenzied with excitement at the sight of another dog (again, we thought this was how it would be forever) and she sometimes pays attention (opposed to having butterflies in her brain). Positive training and rewards seemed to have no change in her behaviour when we were doing them and it is easy to become despondent and wonder if other ways are not actually okay and just misunderstood. But the very, very big point is that after only three and a half months (we brought her home at 10 weeks) we (her and us) have achieved all of the goals we cried tears about during the early stages - potty training, bite inhibition, jumping, biting, loose lead walking, not totally dying of embarrassment at puppy class, a sense of attention, stay, sit, down, drop, take, find and leave it. And we are not trainers, we aren't even amateur trainers, we are total novice dog owners that have always had cats. But what cats did teach us is patience and persistence and being really, really excited with small changes. Please try consistency in positive training and keep a journal so that it can helpful with being mindful of the gradual progress. It will give you so much joy to read back and realize how far you have both come.
Exactly this! Really good advice. It's easy to be bogged down on today's problem and not realise that yesterday's problem is no longer. I put a daily status on Facebook, so my friends will often remind me how far we've come. And now the statuses have become a bit boring "Another super loose lead walk with Coco..."
