I have been thinking about Charlie's recall for sometime now, he comes back to us without a recall and we reinforce it on his way back, we are just so worried about trying when he is at any distance in fear of damaging it after taking such a long time to train . Do you think the reinforcing could possibly affect his outward bound recall? We put him back on a long line every now and then to practise and he is great every time at 10 meters recalling but off lead it's different but maybe that's down to our lack of confidence not Charlie Any help would be great. Thanks x
Re: A RECALL Question I'm probably not that much use on this one but how about trying the 'this way' exercise that my behaviourist gave me to work on with Penny to try and help her recall away from dogs. - Start in an empty field with no distractions and preferable only one entrance. Have him running around off the lead, doing his thing. - Wait until he is engaged in having a sniff of something or looking the other way, then call 'this way' and leg it towards the entrance. - Do not call a second time or say anything else, do not look over your shoulder or give him any attention at all. - Once he has caught up with you be sure to reward him. My behaviourist says not to reward from your hand as we are not using this as a recall exercise but it may work for you. I guess the idea is that they associate the phrase 'this way' as a cue to you leaving so they shouldn't fail to run after you. Note: I don't run, so don't worry lol! It works just as well if you turn and walk briskly or slow jog in the opposite direction! My behaviourist says that the phrase 'this way' should be something you don't ordinarily use. He said he often gets people to say 'I'm off' instead as it's something that wouldn't naturally come up in normal conversation. The aim is to use a phrase that is specific to that behaviour and isn't going to confuse them. Did that make any sense?? Not sure if I explained it very well.... I have to say I've had fantastic success with Penny, she picked it up after about four go's!
Re: A RECALL Question Not sure what you mean about reinforce on the way back - do you mean you are using a marker, or actually you are giving a cue as he runs towards you? And by outward bound recall you mean you are recalling him when he is heading away from you? If you wanted to use a marker and reward without using your recall, you could try marking the moment he voluntarily turns towards you (with a clicker or "good boy"), and rewarding when he gets to you. I've found that has had a great effect over time.
Re: A RECALL Question Thanks Lauren, we do those things running in the opposite direction etc. and we use "lets go" which all work. I really mean our recall whistle. Julie, I mean we reinforce our whistle recall when he is running towards us and yes the outward bound is the recall we are worried about incase he ignores it so haven't done many at all. We always say "good boy" and reward when he looks or gets to us and again this all works. Just want to blow my recall when he is heading away and for him to come back but David and I are too worried :
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=charlie link=topic=7668.msg107094#msg107094 date=1409866715] I mean we reinforce our whistle recall when he is running towards us and yes the outward bound is the recall we are worried about incase he ignores it so haven't done many at all. We always say "good boy" and reward when he looks or gets to us and again this all works. Just want to blow my recall when he is heading away and for him to come back but David and I are too worried : [/quote] ok, I'm with you. Well, yes, recalling when he is heading away probably isn't the one to start with. Does he mooch about close to you at all? Could you try the first one when he is sort of doing nothing rather than on his way out?
Re: A RECALL Question After his burn off he sometimes does mooch so we could try a couple of recalls then and build up the distance slowly with high value treats ??? Our confidence issue I feel which is hardly surprising x
Re: A RECALL Question Best of luck with it, I'm sure it'll be fine. But if you are marking and rewarding his attention on you, then that's probably doing the world of good anyway.
Re: A RECALL Question There's also that moment when they're heading away from you and they start to slow or they shift weight on a shoulder when they pick up some scent and rather than recalling when they're at full tilt you may want to start looking for those moments when they're just breaking out of their run. So it's a step up from mooching but not completely full tilt. Or try really early before they get up to speed (are anyone's responses that fast though ). When we did recall from a moving object a while ago, Riley is so set up to chase I had to call withing the first two strides or it didn't work, I eventually got up to about 4 strides but that took 2 days and about 4 or 5 sessions from memory. Some of the other breeds with much, much less chase instinct could let their dogs go to 5-10m away I may not have explained that very well.........can anyone do a better job....please? :
Re: A RECALL Question I know what you mean Barbara - watching the body language is key. That moment when they go stiff and you know they are just about to gooooooooo... that may be the moment to blow the recall whistle, before he really gets going.
Re: A RECALL Question Really interesting thread, and very glad you posted this! We also have a similar strategy as Lauren, using this way, which works a treat and helps keep him relatively close. I feel we now need to revisit the whistle recall, we need to make this response to the whistle more robust, so I feel more confident. It is a bit frustrating at times, wanting to recall him back and watching carefully for the right moment, and not when he is engrossed in another dogs bum, or has just legged it after an interesting scent.. Especially challenging on less frequented or new, very exciting walks. It feels like we worked very hard initially on the recall, and sort of left it at that really. I guess I have answered my own question and more proofing with high value treats required!
Re: A RECALL Question If Charlie has "gone" I have a much, much, better chance with my stop whistle than my recall. If I won't even chance my stop, I wait until he has got to wherever it is he is going (other dog etc) and finished his run out, then use my recall.
Re: A RECALL Question The problem with Charlie is lead comes off and he's gone at 0 to 60 in the blink of an eye and covers vast ground so just NO chance at all of getting a successful recall I think our only chance of improving this is do let him have that burn off of energy then he tends to stay closer and do some short distance recalls when his nose isn't to the ground and build up the distance over time :-\ xx
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=charlie link=topic=7668.msg107163#msg107163 date=1409910971] The problem with Charlie is lead comes off and he's gone at 0 to 60 in the blink of an eye and covers vast ground so just NO chance at all of getting a successful recall I think our only chance of improving this is do let him have that burn off of energy then he tends to stay closer and do some short distance recalls when his nose isn't to the ground and build up the distance over time :-\ xx [/quote] Sounds sensible I only talked about it as if you do want to try and break in to a recall in full flight you need to chip away at either end of his blast but I totally recognise the challenges in doing that with speedy Charlie. You know I witnessed the rapid disappearance of a pointer x I meet in the lane near us fast really doesn't cover it!
Re: A RECALL Question Hold onto your wigs , at a very rough guess I would say 300 meters or so and for 3 - 5 minutes then straight back no problem.
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=bbrown link=topic=7668.msg107165#msg107165 date=1409911373] [quote author=charlie link=topic=7668.msg107163#msg107163 date=1409910971] I witnessed the rapid disappearance of a pointer x I meet in the lane near us fast really doesn't cover it! [/quote] You are so right Barbara, I still can't believe he is so fast, he really takes my breath away and not in a good way x
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=charlie link=topic=7668.msg107166#msg107166 date=1409911437] Hold onto your wigs , at a very rough guess I would say 300 meters or so and for 3 - 5 minutes then straight back no problem. [/quote] Wow, hats off to you for your bravery! What is he doing for 5 minutes?
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7668.msg107168#msg107168 date=1409911747] [quote author=charlie link=topic=7668.msg107166#msg107166 date=1409911437] [/quote] Wow, hats off to you for your bravery! What is he doing for 5 minutes? [/quote] RUNNING!!
Re: A RECALL Question It sounds to me like he needs it Helen, and I admire you for letting him have that time.
Re: A RECALL Question [quote author=Karen link=topic=7668.msg107172#msg107172 date=1409912095] It sounds to me like he needs it Helen, and I admire you for letting him have that time. [/quote] Thanks Karen, he definitely needs it, we feel he focuses better afterwards, so heel work on/off lead is better and even trotting behind, stop whistle is improving very slowly but not at any distance yet :. The strange thing is he is calmer in the woods, staying within about 30 meters and checking in on us, maybe that's the way forward with the short distance recall but maybe too many opportunities for nose down :-\ It's a difficult one for us. x
